Texecom Premier Elite 48 vs Elite 64-W?

[Skylar]

Hi

Newbie to the forum! Hoping you great people can help me out with a few queries on Texecom alarm systems.

Planning to self install the following:

House

• Texecom Premier Elite control panel
• Texecom Connect SmartCom Ethernet/Wifi Communicator
• Texecom Premier Elite SMK Keypad (wired)
• Texecom Premier Elite Remote Zone Expanders (wired or wireless zones, depending on chosen control panel)
• 8 x PIR Dual Tech sensors (wired)
• 2 x magnetic contact sensors (wired, unless cable routing issues force my use of wireless)
• 3 x optical smoke sensors or sensor/alarms (wired)
• 1 x smoke/heat alarm for kitchen (wired)
• 2 x panic buttons (wired)
• 2 x Texecom Odyssey X sounders (wired)

Detached garage

• Texecom Ricochet Premier Elite Smart Key to deactivate garage alarm area and somehow trigger garage door opener.
• Texecom Premier Elite wireless Keypad (if needed?)
• 1 x PIR sensor (wireless)
• 1 x magnetic contact sensor (wireless)
• 1 x smoke/heat alarm (wireless)
• 1 x dummy sounder

Unfortunately, running a wired connection to the garage would probably be difficult, hence wireless devices in there.

I've done hours of research using information I can find, but would be grateful of any comments on the following:

1. Is the Elite 64W control panel 'better' (newer, better processor or main board for example) than the Elite 48? Any other differences, apart from the 64-W having polymer case, onboard wireless and higher maximum zone limit?
2. Would you buy the Elite 48 + Elite 8XP Expander + Ricochet 8XP-W Expander or the Elite 64-W + two Elite 8XP Expanders, giving more wired and wireless zones for future expansion?
3. Would you use the smoke/heat alarms available for the alarm panels, as some advice seems to suggest a separate fire detector/alarm system is safer and can still be linked to invoke the intruder alarm sounders?

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thank you
Skylar

 

[secureiam]

Elite 48 is a metal panel and the 64W a polymer.

Elite 48W is the predecessor to the 64W and you should be able to flash the 48W to he 64W.

some suppliers haven't updated there specs properly, if you buy a 48W now, they will probably be out of warranty as far as the manufacturer are concerned.

To achieve your wired zones on a 64W you will need to look at hard wired expanders address 5 to 8 (8 zones per hard wired expander, 4 on the panel, 2 on the hard wired keypad is possible).

wrt to the two sounders you will need to look at power as the fuse is rated at 0.9A for the bell circuit, as two odyssey X on full power would exceed 0.9A in alarm

 

[Skylar]

Thank you so much for your swift reply!


Just to confirm, I wasn’t considering the Elite 48W, as I assumed it was discontinued (can’t find it for sale anywhere). I’m only comparing the Elite 48 (metal - not the 'W' model) with the Elite 64W (Polymer) and wondered if one was newer or ‘better’ than the other, putting aside the obvious differences in grade and wired/wireless zones. Just trying to establish which one will have a longer service life or has newer technology (if different at all).


Glad you pointed out the problem with fuse rating of the sounder circuit – would never have noticed that. What’s the usual solution when using more than one sounder? Have one sounder as wireless, or can the fuse be upgraded? Was thinking of having a sounder on front and back of house, but one would probably be fine if two are a problem.

 

[sparkymarka]

Go 48 metal plus expander as it may easier to locate the wireless expander for a better signal for the garage !

 

[secureiam]

swings and round abouts.

the mesh works well if you have plenty of devices, but the compact sensors are not as good on signal as there bigger brothers.

during some recent replacements over the last week or so, I have noted that the compact pw-w run at 20-30 units lower than the Premier Elite QD-W (used to replace them), basically anything with a proper aerial rather than a built in device aerial appears to have a significant improvement on signal strength.

as for distance, its hard to say as other things can influence the signal for sure.

to be fair the micro contacts and shocks seem to fair a little better that the pw-w but not enough comparisons made to be certain.

all these were done on 64-W units installed between 6 months and 4 years ago (48-W flashed up to 64W in the oldest models).

 

[Skylar]

Go 48 metal plus expander as it may easier to locate the wireless expander for a better signal for the garage !

Thank you for that consideration. The control panel is going in a cupboard central to the house (a circa 1989 built bungalow) and the straight line distance to the garage is around 22-25 metres, but is diagonal, so crosses around 5-6 walls. I was hoping the signal would reach being fairly low frequency, but I realise I can't be sure until I try it.

Problem with getting the Elite 48 metal instead, it means I have to buy two expanders (one wired and one wireless) to accommodate the 12-14 hard wired devices I want to use. So having looked into it further, I think I'd rather try the Elite 64-W + one wired expander and hope that works. This would give me a total of 14 wired zones and 32 wireless with the keypad (decided to get the FMK now), assuming I've got this right:

64-W: 4 zones onboard (plus 32 wireless)
8XP Expander: 8 zones
FMK keypad: 2 zones

swings and round abouts.

the mesh works well if you have plenty of devices, but the compact sensors are not as good on signal as there bigger brothers.

during some recent replacements over the last week or so, I have noted that the compact pw-w run at 20-30 units lower than the Premier Elite QD-W (used to replace them), basically anything with a proper aerial rather than a built in device aerial appears to have a significant improvement on signal strength.

as for distance, its hard to say as other things can influence the signal for sure.

to be fair the micro contacts and shocks seem to fair a little better that the pw-w but not enough comparisons made to be certain.

all these were done on 64-W units installed between 6 months and 4 years ago (48-W flashed up to 64W in the oldest models).

Definitely swings and roundabouts, and seems to just be a matter of preference in some cases.

Noted your comment on the compact PIRs thank you. I'll switch to the full size one to be sure to get the best signal in the garage. Starts to get expensive, so think I will just get QD PIRs all round, now I've seen the price of the Dual Tech!

What are people's thoughts on smoke detectors? Would you use ones wired to the alarm system (such as the Texecom ones), or is it better to have a completely independent fire detector/alarm network for reliability, and use this to trigger the alarm? Such as Aico or FireAngel main detectors?

Once again - thank you all for your help.

 

[secureiam]

might be cheaper to look at a kit 5 if going down the metal panel route. 2 x QD-W, 2 x DT-W etc and 32 XP-W

then you have to address the 8XP as address 4 so the wireless only capable of 24 zones. it comes with a cheap LCDP keypad which has two zones on the back of it. but you have to do the maths and compare the different options.

personally I have the wireless smokes as they have built in sounders, however ideally mains smokes with battery back up.

odd though house I was in yesterday, the smokes werent working so had a quick look, mains but not powered up, back up battery wait for it still sealed.

the 64W option is fine

 

[Skylar]

odd though house I was in yesterday, the smokes werent working so had a quick look, mains but not powered up, back up battery wait for it still sealed.

Great job someone did on the battery!

I've researched this to death and going round in circles, so going to just buy the thing now! Annoyingly, none of the kits are a great saving for the system I'm planning, as I want the wired FMK keypad for example. However, I may buy the Elite 64W 0001 kit, as I can use the control panel, door sensor and fobs, and always sell the other bits if I can't find somewhere for them.

I'll buy separate smoke alarms (possibly Aico) for the house and interconnect with the alarm using a relay, apart from the garage, where I will use a wireless Texecom detector (thanks for mentioning they have their own sounder).

This is the parts list:

House

• 1 x Texecom Ricochet Premier Elite 64-W Control Panel GEW-0001
• 1 x Texecom Premier Elite 8XP Remote Zone Expander CCB-0001
• 1 x Texecom Connect SmartCom Ethernet & Wifi Communicator CEL-0001
• 1 x Texecom Premier Elite Satin Chrome FMK Keypad DBD-0123
• 1 x Texecom Ricochet Premier Elite Smart Key GCC-0001
• 2 x Texecom Odyssey X-B Grade 3 Sounder with Integral Backlight WDC-0002
• 1 x Texecom Odyssey X-D Dummy Sounder WDE-0001
• 3 x Texecom Odyssey X3 Cover White/Blue WDB-0001
• 8 x Texecom Premier Elite Dual Technology PIR AFG-0001
• 2 x CQR Single Push Panic Button Stainless Steel PASP1/SS
• 2 x CQR FC505/WH Flush Contact White CQR FC505/WH

Garage

• 1 x Texecom Ricochet Premier Elite DT-W Wireless Dual Technology PIR GBF-0001
• 1 x Texecom Ricochet OH-W Wireless Smoke and Heat Detector GBN-0001
• 1 x Texecom Ricochet Micro Door Contact-W White GHA-0001

Accessories

• 1 x Yuasa Yucel 7-12v Back Up Battery For Alarm Control Panels
• 2 x 6 core alarm cable (100m reel)

Comes to over £900 - lot more than I originally planned to spend

 

[secureiam]

2 x Texecom Odyssey X-B Grade 3 Sounder with Integral Backlight WDC-0002

You wont be able to power both these directly from the panels bell terminals without dropping to Low current or SCB.
Unless you put an inline fuse on the DC+- on the digioutput terminal side or use power from elsewhere.

Can I ask why you want Grade 3 bells on a panel only capable of grade 2 (it wont be graded anyway it be bells only, but wondered why you wanted them).

 

[Skylar]

As it happens I spoke to a supplier this afternoon, who like you, also suggested I just use the grade 2 Texecom Odyssey X-BE instead. Said the grade 3 is unnecessary on residential installs. I believe there is an added benefit of being able to power two Odyssey X-BE without the current draw issue as well, because it should be well under 900mA total?

I was also advised that under no circumstances should I have PIRs directed towards windows, even using Dual Techs, so I might have to go to the trouble of getting the wiring up the outside corners of the room, which is always more difficult close to the eaves of the roof. I know it's a concern, so planned to have them crossing windows, rather than pointing direct, but the advice seems to be to face completely away from windows. Everyone has their own opinion though, and no idea how big the problem of false alarm is in reality.

I've also been advised it makes more sense to get the Premier Elite 24 (Polymer) now, with the internal 8XE expander, and and 8XP-W for the wireless. Doesn't actually work out a whole lot cheaper to be honest and would have less overall expansion capability if I wanted to add anything in future.

As usual - going round in circles!

 

[sparkymarka]

I was also advised that under no circumstances should I have PIRs directed towards windows, even using Dual Techs,

? What if the room has windows on 4 sides ? A quality pir has no issues with this ....who told you this ? Sometimes it can’t be avoided...

 

[secureiam]

It’s better if you can avoid exposure to direct sunlight.

rather than point to towards a window, there is a difference.
I have sensors in some installations pointing towards windows, because there is no other way.

You make the point of expansion, the minimum required to meet the job under discussion is different to what you may be able to do in the future.

Expansion is often not taken into account, find it strange that starting with a fully loaded system or close to is a good place to start.

 

[Skylar]

The advice I got today was from Alert Electrical.

I was also advised that under no circumstances should I have PIRs directed towards windows, even using Dual Techs,

? What if the room has windows on 4 sides ? A quality pir has no issues with this ....who told you this ? Sometimes it can’t be avoided...

I'm inclined to agree with your opinion on the PIR placement, so I think I'll put them in the original locations I planned. None are in direct sunlight and worst case, I could move any that become a problem.

It’s better if you can avoid exposure to direct sunlight.

rather than point to towards a window, there is a difference.
I have sensors in some installations pointing towards windows, because there is no other way.

You make the point of expansion, the minimum required to meet the job under discussion is different to what you may be able to do in the future.

Expansion is often not taken into account, find it strange that starting with a fully loaded system or close to is a good place to start.

I agree on the issue with starting with an almost fully loaded system. I've now done two spreadsheets comparing an Elite 24 with Elite 64-W system, including all the sensors I want, and it comes out around 6% more (£50) for the 64-W system, but obviously has much more zone expansion possibility in future, and with the kit gives an extra wireless keypad, plus 3 wireless Pet PIR sensors I could sell and get some money back on, as I don't need them.

On top of this the Elite 24 is showing as out of stock anyway!

 

[secureiam]

easily get £100-£150 for the spare bits as they are new be aware the kits do not have seperate box's, so you would need something to put the units in if selling them.

£30+ each for the pw-w, wireless keypad £50+ shouldn't be too hard to achieve, but postage and fees to take into account you still have more than your £50 difference left.

Shop around.

 

[Skylar]

Thanks for the note about kit items not having boxes. I'm working on the basis I get nothing for the spare parts, so anything I get back will be a bonus, and the figures you gave are in-line with my estimates.