Tiles Falling Off

[Shahbaz]

I have never done any kind of tiling to date and didn't do any research before hand (all my own fault ). I bought some ceramic tiles (40cm x 23cm) from a local tile shop to tile my bathroom and asked them to give me what I need to fix them. I was given 3 large tubs of adhesive and told to put the adhesive directly onto the tiles then stick them to the walls. The walls were all skimmed and smooth (as recommended by the tile shop) well in advance of me having to tile the bathroom. I did not prime the walls before hand. This tile shop was recommended to me by a lot of tradesmen who did various bits of work in my house so I made the mistake of trusting their advice/opinions.

Having put all the tiles on with the adhesive they supplied, I was ready to start grouting. It took me a week to fix the tiles on so by that time the wall that I started from was ready to have the spacers taken out. I took all the spacers out fine (some of them were very tight) on the first two walls, however when I got to the final two walls the tiles just started slipping off when I pulled a spacer out. Unforunately, I had a domino effect going on where one fell and hit some others and took those out (smashing a few on the way). With all the tiles that fell off, I noticed that the plaster on the wall was still clean and all the glue was on the tiles. I went to the tile shop and they said there must have been dust between the walls and the tiles - even though I am pretty sure I cleaned the walls thoroughly.

What I am left with now is two walls where some (around 10) tiles have fallin off and the spacers still between a lot of the tiles. Can anyone recommend what I should do next? Was it really dust that made the tiles not stick to the walls? Should I assume that all the tiles will drop off eventually or should I just check to see if there are any other loose ones? How do I fix the loose/fallen tiles back to the walls without them falling off again?

 

[gcol]

You have my deepest sympathies - that's a nightmare.
In my experience, you're better talking to a tiler than the blokes in the tile shop - most I've spoken to only have half an idea.
Your adhesion issue could be down to one or a combination of problems.
Dusty walls? Hmmm, I doubt it - not if the walls were clean of adhesive. They'd have had to be very dusty for no adhesive to be left on the walls.
What adhesive did you use? Did the instructions on the adhesive mention priming? When the tiles fell off, was the adhesive still soft?
Most likely you're problem would be faulty or out of date adhesive or not fixing the tiles to the walls quick enough after applying the adhesive to the tiles. (Incidently, you generally apply the adhesive to the walls rather than the tiles.) If you're not quick enough, the adhesive will form a skin after a short time which will prevent it getting a grip. It took you a week you say - the longer the adhesive is exposed to the air, the more likely you will be to have problems.
You can test whether your tiles have adhered properly by sticking some gaffer tape to the tile and pulling it off - if the adhesive is still damp though, you'll probably be able to pull most of them off.
The tiles you can pull off should be scraped clean and stuck back up using a powdered adhesive - I've never had any trouble with powdered adhesive failing on walls.
If you suspect that the adhesive is at fault then you should call the manufacturers and see what they suggest. You might have some success with getting some powdered adhesive from the tile shop for free if you kick up a fuss.

 

[joe-90]

You should have read the back of the tub. You never (or hardly ever) butter the tile. You always apply the adhesive to the wall with a notched trowel.

Best bet is to pull them all off and clean them the best you can and start again.

You'll know if you've got it right because the suction will stick the tile to the wall almost instantly like a sucker on a window.

The mistake you made is that the tile absorbed the moisture out of the adhesive and sent it straight 'off'.

 

[gcol]

The mistake you made is that the tile absorbed the moisture out of the adhesive and sent it straight 'off'.

You think a tile would wick moisture away any faster that plasterboard?

 

[alternativetiles]

Your first obvious issue is that the tiles are too big for bucketed adhesive.

You should fix tiles larger than 25x25cm with a cement based adhesive which dries by chemical reaction rather than air as most bucketed adheisves dry.

I would only recommend tiling with cement based polymer modified adhesives and supply an SBR primer to be used prior to tiling when supplying large format tiles.

This a reply from one of us tile shops

 

[gcol]

This a reply from one of us tile shops

- most I've spoken to only have half an idea.

You're approaching 5/8ths

Don't get me wrong - I'm not sticking up (pun intended) for premixed adhesives (in fact I hate the stuff) and I agree that cement based powdered adhesives give a fast reliable bond. Of course it's your perogative to recommend the use of powdered adhesives for tiles over 250 x 250 mm (women measure in cm ) and I applaud it. But I just want to point out that premixed adhesive does not just "air dry". Sure evaporation is a factor, but you need to realise that the main reasons the premixed adhesive "goes off" is the tile and substrate wicking moisture from it. It's for this reason I don't really agree with your 250 x 250 rule of thumb. But hey, it's you that's selling the stuff.

 

[alternativetiles]

I have been told the tiles over 25x25cm rule by several people who should know, including the technical sales people at Norcros Adhesives (formerly BAL until they sold it) and of course the brand behind H&R Johnsons tiles.

Cement based adhesives will set/harden even if immersed in water, try doing that with your average bucketed. It will wick the moisture out of it as it dries but that is not the only way the product dries.

I joined this forum to try and help people as I have 23 years experience in the tile industry and own a tile shop. All the advice I give is usually correct (I do make mistakes sometimes though )
I will stand by my advice

Shahbaz if you are unsure ring the adhesive manufacturer and ask there advice. They will not give you incorrect advice as they will have to put the job right if they get it wrong.

 

[gcol]

I joined this forum to try and help......

So that'll be why you added the link to you website in your signature then?

 

[alternativetiles]

I joined to help, added the signiature to promote the shop - yes but I would not join a forum and spend ages answering peoples queries to promote the shop to people who live so far away they are never likely to visit me anyway There are easier ways to promote a website

Besides have I not been helping people since I removed my link? If I were that shallow would I not drop the forum like a stone once my link were no longer visible?

I don't think it's me that has another agenda at all.

You are obviously a cynical man Let people draw there own conclusions as to my integrity.

 

[gcol]

I joined to help, added the signiature to promote the shop - yes but I would not join a forum and spend ages answering peoples queries to promote the shop to people who live so far away they are never likely to visit me anyway There are easier ways to promote a website

You've lost me. You say you added the signature to promote the shop. But in the same sentence say that you wouldn't promote the shop to people that live a long way away. So are you saying that you would promote the shop for people that live near your shop. Which is it?

Besides have I not been helping people since I removed my link? If I were that shallow would I not drop the forum like a stone once my link were no longer visible?

Your name is your shop, your web address is clearly visible in your profile and you keep mentioning your shop in posts. It's plain for everyone to see that you have a shop and what it's called.

I don't think it's me that has another agenda at all.

By that you imply that I have an "agenda". Would you care to enlighten me as to what you think it might be?

You are obviously a cynical man Let people draw there own conclusions as to my integrity.

I prefer the word "wary". It seems strange to me that you can't deal with gentle ribbing. Is there any reason why this should be the case? Why did you immediately leap to the defense of your integrity when my previous remarks have been of a teasing nature? I'm quite sure I've mentioned how good your site is. How I applaud you for your recommending powdered adhesive to your customers instead of pre-mixed bubble gum.
And another one; I was reading through some of the guides on your site yesterday and found them informative and well written.
I welcome you with open arms - you're a good guy, but don't take the hump because I care to pass comment on some of your points. This is a forum - a place of discussion. That's what it's for.

 

[alternativetiles]

Gcol

I am not wound up and can take a joke

I am chilled

Merely responding to your comments with some stick as you have given me.

I am not on here to promote my shop I have easier ways to do so other than giving free advice to people.

Subject closed. Hump not taken

 

[joe-90]

The mistake you made is that the tile absorbed the moisture out of the adhesive and sent it straight 'off'.

You think a tile would wick moisture away any faster that plasterboard?

Yes. Plasterboard is a perfectly prepared and manufactured product perfect for receiving plaster or adhesive. Try it yourself.

 

[gcol]

You absolutely haven't got a clue.

 

[joe-90]

What do you do for a living? I'm a pro renovator.

 

[gcol]

My current occupation is in my profile.
If someone has fitted tiles professionally for years and then feels like doing something different, does that lessen his knowledge? I think not.