Top newel post installation

[swilli88]

I would love a steer on the way to go with this newel installation at the top of the stairs.

for anyone wondering, the extra bit of timber attached to the inside of the stringer is how I am offsetting the newel and handrail slightly to avoid new handrail clashing with the landing ceiling. So Ignore that bit.

Newel post to install is 118x118mm

The question is on strategy for fixing the newel at the top. I was thinking maybe:

option 1: cut the stringer flush with the floorboards and cut the newel to have a chunk of it slot down between the stringer and the adjacent floor joist, glue and fix through stringer and joist. Would likely need tolift one of the landing boards to fix to joist.

option 2: leave the stringer more of less as is (triangular above boards) and cut a slot to accommodate it, somewhat straddling the stringer and possibly still have a bit that goes down the slot to fix to joist if that is necessary. I was thinking the triangular slot could be a bit more awkward for a somewhat novice in woodwork

option3: a better option you guys suggest?

 

[big-all]

you cant offset the handrail it must follow the string to keep the spindles vertical----
or am i misunderstanding this??

 

[swilli88]

you cant offset the handrail it must follow the string to keep the spindles vertical----
or am i misunderstanding this??

sorry yes i didnt maybe explain very well. I 'thickened' the stringer to essentially move/offset the centre of the stringer. The handrail baserail newels will all be centered on the now thicker stringer

Do you have a steer on the meat of the question in the post?

 

[DAZB]

Best option is always to secure the newel to the most solid part of the job which is the joists so by all means house it over the triangle if you can but certainly run it down to be bolted to the joist.
There are other simpler methods with products like these below but they have their limitations to a degree.

Bulldog Fixing (Newel Post Support)

One of the most difficult tasks when building or renovating a staircase is finding a good quality place to site your newel posts, if you are just renovating an ...

www.ukstairparts.co.uk

or

Concealed Post Base Support | Fence Post Base | Stainless Steel Post Base | eBay

Flitch plate, washers and standoff base are pre-galvanised steel.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[swilli88]

Best option is always to secure the newel to the most solid part of the job which is the joists so by all means house it over the triangle if you can but certainly run it down to be bolted to the joist.
There are other simpler methods with products like these below but they have their limitations to a degree.

Bulldog Fixing (Newel Post Support)

One of the most difficult tasks when building or renovating a staircase is finding a good quality place to site your newel posts, if you are just renovating an ...

www.ukstairparts.co.uk

or

Concealed Post Base Support | Fence Post Base | Stainless Steel Post Base | eBay

Flitch plate, washers and standoff base are pre-galvanised steel.

www.ebay.co.uk

Thanks again @DAZB

If going down to the joist with the newel is there need to straddle the triangle as well?

Also the way I'm seeing it, it looks like I might only get fixings in one direction through the stringer newel floor joist. Is that enough with the glue or should I find a way that I have opportunity for a fixing at 90degrees to that?

 

[DAZB]

Not essential to straddle the triangle but would be a stronger joint and you could always cut the triangle to make it square or rectangular so easier to house in but as said, not essential. As for fixings coming in from one side is ok but again IF you can get from both or skew nail also it will make it more secure. As long as you keep checking for plumb as the joists will not be and you may need to shave or shim to suit.

 

[swilli88]

Not essential to straddle the triangle but would be a stronger joint and you could always cut the triangle to make it square or rectangular so easier to house in but as said, not essential. As for fixings coming in from one side is ok but again IF you can get from both or skew nail also it will make it more secure. As long as you keep checking for plumb as the joists will not be and you may need to shave or shim to suit.

Thanks very much. That’s a smart compromise to flatten the stringer to make an easier time of the notch in the post while offering up a bit more stability. Appreciate it

 

[swilli88]

@DAZB I got bored in work, did a mockup CAD to see what the newel notch would look like....does this look like plenty of stability in the making?

 

[DAZB]

It does and for added support and if you can get access then block or metal strap between the joist with the newel and the neighbouring joists so they will share the load.

 

[swilli88]

It does and for added support and if you can get access then block or metal strap between the joist with the newel and the neighbouring joists so they will share the load.

Im not sure I fully understand that suggestion on the strap @DAZB . can you link me to something like what you mean?

 

[DAZB]

Just a simple galv strap as such fixed over as many joists as possible.

Bpc Hx Heavy Engineered Strap Bent 1000mm | Tradefix Direct

Shop Bpc Hx Heavy Engineered Strap Bent 1000mm at Tradefix Direct. Free next day delivery on orders over £60. Large discounts on bulk orders. Order online.

tradefixdirect.com

 

[swilli88]

Just a simple galv strap as such fixed over as many joists as possible.

Bpc Hx Heavy Engineered Strap Bent 1000mm | Tradefix Direct

Shop Bpc Hx Heavy Engineered Strap Bent 1000mm at Tradefix Direct. Free next day delivery on orders over £60. Large discounts on bulk orders. Order online.

tradefixdirect.com

ah I see. gotchya thanks

 

[swilli88]

@DAZB do you have reccommedation for the glue to use when installing the newel?

Iv read Polyurethane glue because its a decent gap filler too to combat less perfect notching of the post?

theres a few on amazon...

https://amzn.eu/d/9m7rmfr

https://amzn.eu/d/bCYkvxg

https://amzn.eu/d/ehMbqZp

any of these?

and recommended screws while we are at it?

 

[DAZB]

Any of those glues would do the job and i have used this stuff a lot recently doing my loft conversion...

Egger advanced D4 PU Joint and Joist Adhesive 1KG Waterproof Outdoor Strong Glue | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Egger advanced D4 PU Joint and Joist Adhesive 1KG Waterproof Outdoor Strong Glue at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

As for screws, i like the Gold Screw range from Screwfix and they always do a good job but there islots of choice out there and as long as you avoid going to the budget end you should find some you like.

 

[swilli88]

Any of those glues would do the job and i have used this stuff a lot recently doing my loft conversion...

Egger advanced D4 PU Joint and Joist Adhesive 1KG Waterproof Outdoor Strong Glue | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Egger advanced D4 PU Joint and Joist Adhesive 1KG Waterproof Outdoor Strong Glue at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

As for screws, i like the Gold Screw range from Screwfix and they always do a good job but there islots of choice out there and as long as you avoid going to the budget end you should find some you like.

great stuff thanks again @DAZB

i was looking at my stairs again at lunch and I'm going to need a little mitre at the top of the stairs like the picture shown. Is wood glue and timber screws enough at the mitre joint or how should I approach that joint?

the mitre zipbolt looks too long for just a tiny mitre like that. Want to avoid fixings clashing with the fixings to newel post!