Trump encourages Putin to attack NATO...

Vinty said:
How is it propaganda?
With all this free money, there is no incentive to root out corruption.
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there has been endless propaganda about corruption in Ukraine

you are just jumping on the bandwagon


Corruption is endemic across all former Soviet nations, Ukraine is no exception, Zelensky has been trying to root it out

Vinty said:
With all this free money, there is no incentive to root out corruption
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So lets not help Ukraie becaause theres some corruption, lets let it fail and allow Puti to install his oligarchs to control the country..........yeah thatll cut corruption in Ukraines

you do make silly arguments
 
Vinty said:
The point i was making was about corruption in Ukraine
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yes you used it as an argument to not support Ukraine any more

So you want Putin to win and expand his empire.......because thats gonna help sort out corruption :ROFLMAO:
 
Vinty said:
What about Scotland, Wales and the North of England.
While we are at it, what about all these freeloaders on the NHS who get treated for free.
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thank you for admitting how silly your argument is
 
Mottie said:
They're trying. They are just building up a war chest with those missed NATO payments. Any reason you can think of why the so-called most successful European economy can’t or won’t pay their way?
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So you're saying that by not spending on it's military, Germany is preparing to taking over Europe with it's military?

BTW, the 2% of GDP is spending on defence, not some contribution to NATO. And it isn't a rule, its a guideline:
The 2% defence investment guideline

In 2006, NATO Defence Ministers agreed to commit a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to defence spending to continue to ensure the Alliance's military readiness. This guideline also serves as an indicator of a country's political will to contribute to NATO's common defence efforts since the defence capacity of each member has an impact on the overall perception of the Alliance's credibility as a politico-military organisation.
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While I agree that countries should pay their way, there are other factors:
The US and UK has other military commitments that increases their spending, such as the ambition to project power well beyond their shores, and maintain influence. Yes, it turns the US into a global police force of sorts.

Should Spain and Luxembourg increase their spending? Of course, but they don't have the same "needs" as us and the US in this area, so politically, its likely to be a hard sell to their population. They are pledging to increase it :
  • Allies whose current proportion of GDP spent on defence is below this level will: halt any decline; aim to increase defence expenditure in real terms as GDP grows; and aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO's capability shortfalls.
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And nearly all have increased their spending as a % of GDP.

Most of Eastern Europe meanwhile do have a need, and do spend more than 2%.
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ellal said:
Tongue in cheek of course...

Because as we know they are always breaking down and often have no aircraft or support ships...

Which means you might as well just paint a bullseye on them!
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I appreciate it must be incredibly difficult to spec a contract for a ship build. It must be design and build plus a blank cheque for any shipbuilder to take it on. Would be nice to think big business didn’t rip off the government but I suspect it’s champagne time when the contracts are handed out.
 
Notch7 said:
So giving Ukraine no money wouldnt cause ammunition shortages
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I didn't say that.
Trump wants to give loans instead of grants, i just said it might help to stamp out endemic corruption in Ukraine.
The article i quoted about the £40 million paid up front for 100,000 mortar shells that didn't materialise is just one example of the corruption which blights Ukraine.

100,000 mortar shells could fill a lot of Russian body bags, aren't you concerned about that?
 
Notch7 said:
there has been endless propaganda about corruption in Ukraine

you are just jumping on the bandwagon


Corruption is endemic across all former Soviet nations, Ukraine is no exception, Zelensky has been trying to root it out


So lets not help Ukraie becaause theres some corruption, lets let it fail and allow Puti to install his oligarchs to control the country..........yeah thatll cut corruption in Ukraines

you do make silly arguments
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Ukraine still has plenty of its own Oligarchs.
Who do you think bankrolled Zelensky.
 
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