University students to be refused student loans......

[ellal]

But this seems like a war on universities - first they lose a bulk of foreign (EU) students, and now deterring poorer and poorer educated children from getting a better education.

No it's not a war on universities, it's a continual process of chipping away at social mobility, what little there is...

What next, different particular grades in particular subjects to do an apprenticeship?

And those grades could be changed at will...

I wonder how many plumbers would have made the grade?

but old man mottie said

"Who is going to be willing to do the necessary low paid jobs that we all rely on if every person was to go to university and study for a degree? Poor foreigners?"
(who talked about everyone going to uni?)

Well a section of the UK voted to effectively get rid of EU foreigners because apparently they were 'taking our jobs'...

So there's your workforce!

 

[sxturbo]

There isn't always the help, some people go to **** schools. Some people's parents die in their GCSE year, some people turn their lives around after doing **** at age 15.

That flexibility is now going away. For what?

If that's the case re-take the exams...

I done a government funded management course not so long ago..

Part of the requirements was to prove you had basic maths and English to GCSE level. If you couldn't prove it you had to sit exams.

For some reason they didn't do the exams until a year into the course (was an 18 month course) and around half of us had either lost our GCSE or college results or were too old for the certificate to be relevant.

Out of the 30 people on the course around 2 thirds of us had to do the exams, and only around 6 of us managed to pass the exams..

The other half just gave the course up, there was one middle aged gentleman who worked in IT who took his maths 4 times before passing.

As the course dragged on and became harder with course work deadlines etc, out of the 30 that started the course, 6 of us passed, those that passed were all the ones who sat the exams. With the remaining just not bothering to complete it.

Maybe they should introduce these pre-exams before allowing you to enroll on a course.

 

[JP_]

Yes, I do but I don't think it necessary for them to have a degree to do that.

I think much of the entertainment we enjoy requires much more than good GCSEs. You don't create TV, film, video games without highly skilled people - just look at the credits of any movie or game these days. And acting college is still a requirement for acting for most people, OK, not a degree, but still further education. And if it wasn't for sports science we would not have had so much sporting success over the last 40 years.

Who is going to be willing to do the necessary low paid jobs that we all rely on if every person was to go to university and study for a degree?

I don't think anybody is suggesting that everybody goes to uni, but that those that want to can.

I didn't do well at A level due to poor choices and lack of guidance, but I got a good degree which massively helped me in my work. A dread to think where I would be if I had not had the opportunity to extend my education.


If you want this

We need these - and a lot of people in design, music, make up, costume creation, set creation etc don't have great English and maths results.

 

[Mottie]

And thus ...............has revealed yet another prejudice!

but old man mottie said

What a stupid old man you are

Oh the irony.

 

[IT Minion]

If that's the case re-take the exams...

If your school will let you, which not all will. It is a barrier, that will hit people who aren't comfortably middle class. And it's classic Tory party in that they probably never even thought about any edge cases.

Hell, will any old farts who have O Levels be able to do late in life degrees? What about international qualifications?

Pointless chest thumping to hide that there's now a 9% increase in taxes for nurses but not for bankers.

 

[AngleEyes]

Many people do not have the advantage of educated parents and so do not benefit from parental guidance and encouragement.
However, if they have the potential, and they grow up to realise the benefit of good education, they can make up for it in later life.
And thus the low education cycle is broken. Otherwise the low education cycle is perpetuated.

Then again, occasionally even the highest educated prefer to do menial tasks, but that doesn't mean their education has been wasted. They might develop really worthwhile hobbies.
In short education is not only about the chosen profession, it's also about self-development, hence the multitude of evening classes and other sorts of 'educative past-times'. Although they appear to have been deprived of financial support these days.

 

[ellal]

If that's the case re-take the exams...

And how pray tell, if because of said circumstances a tutor for example can't be afforded?

One of our kids found one particular subject difficult, but needed to get top grades to get the place of choice...

We could afford a tutor, but I would wager most can't!

 

[ellal]

Oh the irony.

What's ironic about pointing out the bleeding obvious?

I note that you haven't replied to those who effectively have taken apart your whinge regarding people wanting to better themselves...

Why is that?

Did you do a degree?

 

[AngleEyes]

If that's the case re-take the exams...

I done a government funded management course not so long ago..

Part of the requirements was to prove you had basic maths and English to GCSE level. If you couldn't prove it you had to sit exams.

For some reason they didn't do the exams until a year into the course (was an 18 month course) and around half of us had either lost our GCSE or college results or were too old for the certificate to be relevant.

Out of the 30 people on the course around 2 thirds of us had to do the exams, and only around 6 of us managed to pass the exams..

The other half just gave the course up, there was one middle aged gentleman who worked in IT who took his maths 4 times before passing.

As the course dragged on and became harder with course work deadlines etc, out of the 30 that started the course, 6 of us passed, those that passed were all the ones who sat the exams. With the remaining just not bothering to complete it.

Maybe they should introduce these pre-exams before allowing you to enroll on a course.

When you've been out of education for several years, the first skill that you need to learn is 'learning'.
That's why so many courses aimed at the slightly older student have 'introductory level sessions' to help the students to regain the 'learning' skill.

 

[JP_]

Don't talk to me about tutoring!
It's the reason I am so poor at the moment. Son has maths, English and science tutors. Without them he'd still be bottom of the class and would have limited work choices. Now he is set 2 for maths and science, and set 3 English, and should get good passes in those subjects.

Still not uni grade though. But if he wants to go to uni to learn film studies or sports and fitness (his 2 fav subjects) I'd support that, because both are vital in today's society. We consume sport and entertainment in our free time more than at any other time in history.

 

[sxturbo]

If your school will let you, which not all will.

You can retake your GCSEs at a level, in fact I'm sure your not allowed to move past A level without completing maths and GCSE English.


From Google:
For Maths and English, resitting is compulsory if you haven't achieved a pass (grade 4). You'll need to continue studying these subjects until you either pass or turn 18.


If you can't pass by 18 then why move onto uni?


There is certainly a case for older folk being left out, but again, you can re-take your GCSEs at any point in life.

If you are older and want to do a degree, doing GCSE maths and English first shouldn't be too far out the realms of possibilities.

Though imo if your over 30 there should be a dispensation and maybe just an exam to prove you have the basic understanding.

 

[IT Minion]

You can retake your GCSEs at a level, in fact I'm sure your not allowed to move past A level without completing maths and GCSE English.


From Google:
For Maths and English, resitting is compulsory if you haven't achieved a pass (grade 4). You'll need to continue studying these subjects until you either pass or turn 18.


If you can't pass by 18 then why move onto uni?


There is certainly a case for older folk being left out, but again, you can re-take your GCSEs at any point in life.

If you are older and want to do a degree, doing GCSE maths and English first shouldn't be too far out the realms of possibilities.

Though imo if your over 30 there should be a dispensation and maybe just an exam to prove you have the basic understanding.

There is for any age at present. But now there won't be. Instead of allowing universities to judge individuals on their ability to manage their specific course it is now being forbidden. It's just so pointless

 

[Mottie]

What's ironic about pointing out the bleeding obvious?

What, that I'm 'old'? Would you point out the bleeding obvious if I was disabled, gay or black?

 

[motorbiking]

If you can't managed Grade 4 in GCSE for English and Maths, there really aren't many Uni-degrees that you could manage. Grade 4 is basically a D in old money.

Should Students be encouraged to run up huge debts, trying to get a degree that may be worthless, particularly given the tax payer will pick up the bill if they never reach the income threshold

 

[JP_]

If you can't managed Grade 4 in GCSE for English and Maths, there really aren't many Uni-degrees that you could manage. Grade 4 is basically a D in old money.

Should Students be encouraged to run up huge debts, trying to get a degree that may be worthless, particularly given the tax payer will pick up the bill if they never reach the income threshold

What if you have grade A for GCSE and A level Maths, but E for GCSE English? Should you not be allowed to continue your maths education?

Scientists with dyslexia

Alexander Graham Bell.
Pierre Curie.
Jacques Dubochet.
Michael Faraday.
Galileo Galilei.
James Clerk Maxwell.
John Robert Horner.
Carolyn Widney “Carol” Greider.


It is the usual, old elitist attitude that people must excel in all areas to be able to continue in education in their chosen field.

And I only got a C at GCSE for English Language (got a B for lit!) but I became a copywriter and web content manager - thanks partly to my university education.
I was a classic late developer from a rubbish secondary school.