Unlevel door lining

[Keitai]

The standard sharpening angle for chisels and plane irons is 25°. As you say this is the angle youneed stonework up through the grits to arrive at. Your bevel should be right the way through from the front face to the rear face of the iron or chisel. The lower the grit number the faster the abrasive cuts making low grits ideal for grinding out nicks and chips in the cutting edge

The standard honing angle is 30°. As you say you only need to work the last 2 grits because the bevel itself only needs to be 1 to 2mm initially. It is this secondary bevel which does mist of the actual cutting.

So why have a secondary bevel? Why not just grind everything at 30°?

If you think about it, when you grind at 25° then hone at 30°, giving just a 1 to 2mm secondary bevel, when the blade does start to go a bit blunt it can be "touched up" very quickly by just rehoning the blade. OK, so this means that each time you do it the secondary bevel does grow by 0.3 to 0.5mm or so every time you rehome it, but it does mean that providing you don't need to grind out a chip you should get 5 to 10 honings (shzrpenings) for minimal effort. When you work extremely hard timbers, e.g oak, antique pitch pine, teak, iron, etc. it is often the case that you'll only get 10 to 20 cuts between rehoning. When that secondary be el.grows to 4mm or maybe a bit less, then that's the time to regrind at 25° before adding a secondary bevel. The angles chosen aren't arbitrary. They are meant to allow general use in both softwoods and hardwoods whilst giving reasonable edge life and performance. Well, it works for me and saves a lot of time and effort

Properly honed you should end up with a tiny swarf across the edge which must be removed.

That said there are some chisels which only get a single (less acute) bevel and where a stronger edge is required, e.g. heavy mortising chisels. At this point, though, I wouldn't worry about these as you are unlikely to be using them just yet.

Why flatten the backs of plane irons and chisels?

Mist obviously, in the first case if you don't flatten the back before using a plane iron or chisel and there is any pitting in that back, you simply won't get a consistently sharp edge. Once flattened (to 600 grit) it is only necessary to buff up that face every few times you sharpen/hone with your highest grit paper in order to help keep rust at bay (a wipe over with a rag dampened with 3-in-1 oil ever time you hone or sharpen also helps)

Another thing to consider is that in a bench plane it is the back side which faces the wood, so it needs to be smooth and ideally semi polished. One more thing this does is to enable you to get a tight fit between the back iron and the iron itself (this needs to be a good tight fit to ensure that shavings don't jam betwixt the twain

So flattening the chisel makes the back all shiny? U rub the back and on (as in picture with big old chisel) and work up through grits? Same as getting rid of burr. Do this after honing I guess.

As well as the stone I made from your advice, with wet and dry paper; I bought a diamond sharpening stone kit 400 grit/1000 fine grit. Is that just for honing?

View attachment 221534

 

[HERTS P&D]

Only 4 more pages.

Andy

 

[lostinthelight]

Flat the back first so you know by the light accross the edge when your done and then you can start to sharpen....Im trying Andy

 

[Deleted member 174758]

So flattening the chisel makes the back all shiny? U rub the back and on (as in picture with big old chisel) and work up through grits? Same as getting rid of burr. Do this after honing I guess

To quote myself...

Most obviously, in the first case if you don't flatten the back before using a plane iron or chisel and there is any pitting in that back, you simply won't get a consistently sharp edge. Once flattened (to 600 grit) it is only necessary to buff up that face every few times you sharpen/hone with your highest grit paper in order to help keep rust at bay (a wipe over with a rag dampened with 3-in-1 oil ever time you hone or sharpen also helps)

So you do need to work up through the grits

But you also need to flatten the back of any old (and most new) chisels and plane irons before you sharpen and hone them. Think about it, if you flatten the back after you've sharpened and honed it you might well destroy that nice sharp edge you've just spent all that time to produce! The point is that it is a one time thing to do, with only ever the occasional polishing out with a higher grits if the backs get tarnished or go rusty (and they shouldn't ever go rusty because you are going to wipe them dry and then with an oily rag when they get wet, aren't you?)

As well as the stone I made from your advice, with wet and dry paper; I bought a diamond sharpening stone kit 400 grit/1000 fine grit. Is that just for honing-

You should be able to answer that if you have understood what was stated earlier in this thread. What grits did I say you used to hone on the "scary sharp" board?

I am concerned that you are developing a scatter gun approach to sharpening. There are many methods of sharpening, all of which have their adherents, with their pluses and minuses. When learning to do anything like sharpening I feel it is always best to pick a system and stick with it until you become proficient with it and can produce a really sharp edge. It doesn't matter at this stage whether or not you change your system in due course, what matters is that you learn how to sharpen consistently well. In the case of a plane iron that means sharpening one to the point at which it can cut perfectly smooth almost transparent shaving. Are you there yet? I think not. But you've seen something else and you are now going to change horses mid stream...

And yes, I think that is a valid criticism.

 

[Notch7]

The 3 firmer chisels are probably good Sheffield steel and will hold a sharp

However, you probably won't ever have a job where you need to use them....

 

[Keitai]

I found this link. Seems it's just bottom part of chisel or plane that needs flattening, polishing.

I'll stick to the grits (wet/dry) for now

Out of interest why do you place the plane irons further out from guide compared to chisels ? Thinner metal. I guess all plane blades ( block, smoothing etc) are measured the same- e.g 50mm for 25 degrees

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The slot for the plane irons is above the slot for the chisels on the Eclipse type guide. The extension required is really dependant of which pair of jaws is holding the tool, not whether or not it is a chisel or a plane iron

 

[Notch7]

The slot for the plane irons is above the slot for the chisels on the Eclipse type guide.

Yes it's stepped, isn't it?

Gosh it's many years since I used one of those guides....on a good old fashioned oilstone with a wooden lid.

Back in the days of Yankee screwdrivers and slotted screws

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yep, there are two sets of jaws - the upper ones are wider and won't hold a chisel but will hold a plane iron, the lower ones will only hold narrower tools such chisels. Some of the clones of the original Eclipse #33 honing guide are truly horrible and need attention with a triangular file to get them to hold modern thicker firmer bevel edge chisels, but a bit of filing as opposed to spending £100+ to buy a Lie-Nielsen honing jig is maybe a worthwhile investment.

One trick I did learn back when this was my primary method of restoring cutting bevels was that a piece of plywood set with 2x1 softwood stops set at different distances from the edge and clearly marked with their function, e.g the first parallel to the edge but inset 30mm marked "30° CHISEL HONING", a second one inset 40mm marked "25° CHISEL SHARPENING", a third inset 38mm marked "30° PLANE HONING", a fourth inset 50mm marked "25° PLANE SHARPENING". To set the projection all you do is insert the tool into the appropriate slot and pinch up, turn the guide upside down, butt the honing jig against the edge of the plywood so that the projecting tool is near the setting block you desire then slide the cutter/chisel out until it touches the 2 x 1 stop block. Finally tighten up the screw on the jig pinching the cutter/chisel in place and you are ready to sharpen. Takes longer to describe than to do. Looks a bit like this when made up:

 

[Keitai]

Yep, there are two sets of jaws - the upper ones are wider and won't hold a chisel but will hold a plane iron, the lower ones will only hold narrower tools such chisels. Some of the clones of the original Eclipse #33 honing guide are truly horrible and need attention with a triangular file to get them to hold modern thicker firmer bevel edge chisels, but a bit of filing as opposed to spending £100+ to buy a Lie-Nielsen honing jig is maybe a worthwhile investment.

One trick I did learn back when this was my primary method of restoring cutting bevels was that a piece of plywood set with 2x1 softwood stops set at different distances from the edge and clearly marked with their function, e.g the first parallel to the edge but inset 30mm marked "30° CHISEL HONING", a second one inset 40mm marked "25° CHISEL SHARPENING", a third inset 38mm marked "30° PLANE HONING", a fourth inset 50mm marked "25° PLANE SHARPENING". To set the projection all you do is insert the tool into the appropriate slot and pinch up, turn the guide upside down, butt the honing jig against the edge of the plywood so that the projecting tool is near the setting block you desire then slide the cutter/chisel out until it touches the 2 x 1 stop block. Finally tighten up the screw on the jig pinching the cutter/chisel in place and you are ready to sharpen. Takes longer to describe than to do. Looks a bit like this when made up:
View attachment 221712

Regarding chisel flattening do u do it like this guy? Just bottom part of chisel; he seemed to do it at 45 degree angle too at times which I could only do on my biggest and smallest grits as they're on the edge granite slab. For some reason this link didn't work in my last post

 

[Keitai]

The slot for the plane irons is above the slot for the chisels on the Eclipse type guide. The extension required is really dependant of which pair of jaws is holding the tool, not whether or not it is a chisel or a plane iron

Of course. Thxs

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Regarding chisel flattening do u do it like this guy? Just bottom part of chisel; he seemed to do it at 45 degree angle too...

I'm going to be rude and admit to life being too short to watch the video... and in any case I do seem to spend a lot of it answering your questions! (only jesting)

I generally just polish out the last 12 to 25mm of a blade. You don't need to do more than that, so sorry for not making that clear before. It doesn't really matter if they go straight (back and forth) or diagonally. Because I use a belt grinder these days I tend to polish backs out on the grinder and that is done at an angle simply because it is the only way to present longer tools to the belt.

So there, it doesn't matter so much how you do it - it matters more that you do it

 

[Keitai]

I'm going to be rude and admit to life being too short to watch the video... and in any case I do seem to spend a lot of it answering your questions! (only jesting)

I generally just polish out the last 12 to 25mm of a blade. You don't need to do more than that, so sorry for not making that clear before. It doesn't really matter if they go straight (back and forth) or diagonally. Because I use a belt grinder these days I tend to polish backs out on the grinder and that is done at an angle simply because it is the only way to present longer tools to the belt.

So there, it doesn't matter so much how you do it - it matters more that you do it

Got the back of my old chisels shinier.

Every last bit of black need removing?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Got the back of my old chisels shinier.

Every last bit of black need removing?

Sort of - but the quality of the edge you subsequently produce is dependant on not having any rust "fissures" left in the back near the edge. Bottom 25 to 50mm of the iron or chisel does the job (as I said earlier). Fortunately it is a one time job unless you let them get rusty. Now you've flattened the backs, sharpened and honed them, how do they cut? That's the acid test

 

[Keitai]

Sort of - but the quality of the edge you subsequently produce is dependant on not having any rust "fissures" left in the back near the edge. Bottom 25 to 50mm of the iron or chisel does the job (as I said earlier). Fortunately it is a one time job unless you let them get rusty. Now you've flattened the backs, sharpened and honed them, how do they cut? That's the acid test

They feel quite sharp and cut the paper or score it. I'll keep at it now I have the grinding stone. Backwards and forwards on guide.

Another topic,
I want to use my hand planes more on future doors.

A joiner said he uses -

Smoothing plane, rebate plane, bullnose plane, block plane.

I have a blockplane and either a smoothing or Jack plane (see in picture) as I'm not sure which.

What brand/manufacturer of the ones listed by the joiner above would you recommend buying? Stanley etc I've also found my two planes a bit jolty on door edges. Should I put wax on them?