Upgrading Vaillant VRC 700 controller to VRC 720 sensoCOMFORT

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Milleniumaire

Joined
7 Jan 2010
Messages
734
Reaction score
9
Location
Yorkshire
Country
United Kingdom
I am looking to upgrade my VRC 700 controller to a VRC 720 sensoCOMFORT to give me the additional temperature controls that come with this newer controller. It will also mean upgrading my two remote VR 91's to VR 92's.

I'm assuming it will be a straight forward wiring job, simply replacing one controller with the other - they are all connected via eBus.

In terms of programming, I can make a note of all the settings on the VRC 700, but wondered if the VRC 720 setup menu was much different - can I simply walk through the menu structure and enter the VRC 700 settings into the VRC 720, or is it not this straight forward.

I'm also considering getting a VR921 (sensoNET Internet Gateway), to allow me to use a mobile app to control the system. Does anyone have any experience of sensoNet and the Vaillant App? Is it any good, does the wireless communications work well, can it provide all the functionality that the VRC 720 controller provides i.e. overrides, setting temperature times etc?
 
Assuming you have the VR71 wiring centre? The senso controls are a straight swap for the 700/91 lot yes. I found it a little difficult at first using them as the layouts are significantly different to the 700 which I had for a long while before. But I love it now that Im used to them. The settings are about 90% the same, but worded differently and in different menus, so 100% take down your origional settings for the control and each zone control, and any confusion about the new ones and you can just ask.
 
Thanks for the info. I can confirm I have a VR71 wiring centre installed. This was done as part of an upgrade just over a year ago when I added a new UFH circuit to the system. At the time I also replaced my existing controllers with the VRV 700 & 2 X VR 91's, but never particularly liked the lack of temperature settings, which I had with the previous VRC 430. Given the extortionate rise in gas prices now, I want that temperature controll as I find myself manually changing temps on 3 zones throughout the day.

It was unfortunate/unlucky for me that the VRC 720 came out just after I had purchased the VRC 700, and "fixed" the lack of ability to set multiple temps.

Was there any particular reason you upgraded from the VRC 700 to the VRC 720?

Thanks for the link to the simulator, I was aware of it and have had a play, but could never get it to include 3 heating zones! I'll have another look. Also, from reading the manual, I get the impression when first turned on it goes through an install process, but not sure if the simulator can also do that.

Did you install the VR92 remotes before turning on the VRC720 (powering up the boiler) for the first time? Not sure if the VRC 720 should be installed first, then the VR92's added one at a time as I assume they will need to be identified by an address as part of the config.

Do you have the VR921, which allows you to use a mobile app to control the system?
 
Milleniumaire said:
Thanks for the link to the simulator, I was aware of it and have had a play, but could never get it to include 3 heating zones! I'll have another look. Also, from reading the manual, I get the impression when first turned on it goes through an install process, but not sure if the simulator can also do that.
Click to expand...

Instead of pressing start simulation, press start installation assistant and it will run you through it as if you were installing it. once you tick through all the options there will be a menu with "installation configuration" thats where you set up your heating circuits etc.

The remotes (VR92s) you power up and simply assign them an address, so addr1 for the first, and 2 for the 2nd. after that everything is done from the 720. The 92s look and work the exact same as the 720, you just cant change any installer level stuff on them.

I've only got the 720, I'm not a fan of zoning system that use weather compensation, would much rather just keep an even background heat accross the property (my house isnt big anyway) but you lower the temperature in one zone, you generally only increase the heat loss from another so the system runs hotter to compensate, not something you really need to worry about terribly much with gas, but I'm setting up for a heat pump.

I work for Vaillant so try to keep to the newest controls so I know what I'm doing with them lol.

As far as the sensoNET gateway goes yes I have that as well. Its easy to install, just eBUS cable daisy chained onto existing, then a 3 pin power plug to a wall socket to power it.

I rarely use it as I keep the house at 19/20 degrees on timer when I'm likley to be in, and 17.5/18 when Im out. But I've sized my radiators to run low temperature. Right now its 5.5 degrees outside and my flow temperature to my radiators is 38 degrees, house is sitting comfortably at 19.5

The app is easy to use, a bit sluggish when it comes to synchronising currently, but the app is being replaced throughout this year with a new one thats much better (being done in stages so you'll get a message to upgrade when your system type is due for upgrade) Handy to have as you can check water pressure on boiler etc, it alerts you if theres any issues, and see and set all time schedules etc from it.
 
Milleniumaire said:
Did you install the VR92 remotes before turning on the VRC720 (powering up the boiler) for the first time? Not sure if the VRC 720 should be installed first, then the VR92's added one at a time as I assume they will need to be identified by an address as part of the config.
Click to expand...

Is it wired or wireless controls you have? there the same to use, install is slightly different, but either way they all get wired/fitted at same time, when powered up for the first time you assign the VR92s there addresses before running through the setup on the 720
 
Thanks again for the info.

I had read the reviews of the Vaillant app on Google Play and they aren't very encouraging, mainly due to complaints about response times, so I haven't yet decided to go down the sensoNET route.

I assume the app upgrades you mention don't require any new hardware?
 
ScottishGasMan said:
Is it wired or wireless controls you have? there the same to use, install is slightly different, but either way they all get wired/fitted at same time, when powered up for the first time you assign the VR92s there addresses before running through the setup on the 720
Click to expand...

All three of my controllers are wired. So it looks like I replace all three of them before powering up, at which point I assign them addresses and to the zones they control.

I just have to bite the bullet and order them. Can't bare to tell my wife the money I spent on Vaillant controllers list over a year ago has been wasted. It's a shame Vaillant don't do some sort of upgrade scheme, like Sonos
 
Milleniumaire said:
Thanks again for the info.

I had read the reviews of the Vaillant app on Google Play and they aren't very encouraging, mainly due to complaints about response times, so I haven't yet decided to go down the sensoNET route.

I assume the app upgrades you mention don't require any new hardware?
Click to expand...

No new hardware, its a new app running from new servers, so should be much more responsive. Again, you can always add in the sensoNET at any time in the future so not something you need at the moment
 
I've just had a play with the installation simulator and I'm already a little confused about some of the terminology used :(

The VRC 720 simulation setup screen asks a number of questions. I have a 10 year old ecoTEC system boiler, but assume this is different to an ecoTEC exclusive? I'm not sure what a Buffer cylinder is, but again, I'm assuming this is NOT an unvented hot water cylinder (uniSTOR) like I have.

So, essentially I have said I have a Boiler with 3 heating circuits and said No to all other questions.

The installation assistant asks if the Remote control is connected and if the installation of the remote control is complete. I assume this is the remotes providing an address, however, it only appears to give the option to have ONE remote connected, based on the following summary screen that is displayed:

Control 2.13
Heat generator 1 06.03
Remote control 04.19
FM5 01.09

I think what this is saying is there is one VRC 720 (Control), one boiler (Heat generator 1), one VR 92 (Remote control) and one VR 71 (FM5)?

I guess this is a restriction of the installation simulator to not know there are TWO VR 92's (for heating zones 2 and 3)? Also, I assume it isn't necessary to somehow tell it about the uniSTOR unvented cylinder?

After entering the number of heating circuits it asks about the "FM5 MO" and the options are:

Not working
Cylinder charging pump
Circulation pump
Cooling signal
Anti-legionella pump
Diff. temp. control

What does MO stand for? I'm not sure how to answer this question. Would there be anything in my existing controller setup that would point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

Edit: So I've determined from the VRC 720 manual that FM5 MO is the FM5's Multi-functional Output. I assume there are some specific output connections on the VR 71 used for "other" things. I don't believe my system has any of these, so I'm guessing the answer to FM5 MO is "Not working". However, my CH system does have a Circulation pump on the system side of a LLH, but I'm sure that is wired into the boiler, not the VR 71, so it works in tandem with the boiler pump.

[GALLERY=media, 107869]Central And Underfloor Heating Layout by Milleniumaire posted 4 Apr 2022 at 2:34 PM[/GALLERY]
 
Last edited:
Milleniumaire said:
10 year old ecoTEC system boiler, but assume this is different to an ecoTEC exclusive? I'm not sure what a Buffer cylinder is, but again, I'm assuming this is NOT an unvented hot water cylinder (uniSTOR) like I have.
Click to expand...
ecoTEC Plus (you boiler) is different from an ecoTEC Exclusive.
You probably don't have a buffer, that is a different thing from the hot water cylinder.

Milleniumaire said:
The installation assistant asks if the Remote control is connected and if the installation of the remote control is complete. I assume this is the remotes providing an address, however, it only appears to give the option to have ONE remote connected, based on the following summary screen that is displayed:
Click to expand...

Yep, just make sure there wired in and given address 1 and 2 respectively first. The simulator doesnt get it 100%. But yes, on yours you should see remote control 1, remote control 2. as you say, FM5=VR71, Control=720

Milleniumaire said:
I guess this is a restriction of the installation simulator to not know there are TWO VR 92's (for heating zones 2 and 3)? Also, I assume it isn't necessary to somehow tell it about the uniSTOR unvented cylinder?
Click to expand...

When it asks the basic diagram code then your sort of giving it a rough idea of what system your on. off the top of my head your code would be 2.

Milleniumaire said:
So I've determined from the VRC 720 manual that FM5 MO is the FM5's Multi-functional Output. I assume there are some specific output connections on the VR 71 used for "other" things. I don't believe my system has any of these, so I'm guessing the answer to FM5 MO is "Not working"
Click to expand...

Yep, it reffers to R4 connection on the VR71/FM5, and is an optional output. Typically used to power a secondary circulation pump (the hot water ones that move hot water round a loop of taps in a large building/hotels etc) if nothings wired into R4 on the VR71 then yours is "not working"
 
Once youve passed this initial set up and have the choice of:
1.sensor/actuator test
2. installtion configuration
3.installation start

you need to go into installation configuration,
From there Circuit1,2,3, each of these you need to setup the parameters for each zone, Namely
Heat Curve: depends on your house
Setback mode: Normal
Room temp.mod: Expanded

then, Zone1,2,3 menus and make sure, zone1 is control, zone2 = remotecontrol1, zone 3= remotecontrol 2 if thats how youve fitted them

You can if you wish also go into installtion and turn on adaptive heat curve, which will automatically alter the heatcurve over time to try find the most suitable setting for how you run your system
 
Thanks for the clarification @ScottishGasMan, it all makes sense.

Yes, I had a look around the installation configuration and can see a lot of the settings are similar to those on the VRC 700, some with slightly different descriptions. I plan to attempt to map all my VRC 700 settings to the VRC 720 settings in a spreadsheet before I go ahead. This will ensure I'm aware of any additional VRC 720 settings and also ensure I am more familiar with the VRC 720 menu structure. Being sad, I already have an XML file containing all the existing VRC 700 config menu structure, settings and values!

Yes, my current diagram setting is 2 as you say and I've played around with adaptive heat curve on my existing system, but ended up turning it off!

It's a very good simulator and definitely worth using to "prepare" for upgrading the controllers.
 
Update

Last week, I successfully replaced my VRC 700 & 2 x VR 91's with a VRC 720 and 2 x VR 92's.

Apart from having to drill yet more holes in the wall (3rd set as I'm on my 3rd Vaillant controllers over 12 years), it all went smoothly. I wasn't particularly happy about having to drill more holes in the porcelain bathroom tiles, but thankfully the new controller hides the original holes.

When I turned the power and boiler back on I was able to program the thermostats and everything started working. Unfortunately, in all three zones, the heating came on and stayed on and wouldn't switch off when I lowered the temperature setting. I soon realised this was because for each zone the "Room temp. mode" setting defaults to Inactive. This is one of the few values that didn't map easily from the old controllers, where it was set to "Thermost". On the new controllers, the options for this setting are Inactive, Active and Expanded. I tried changing to Active, which I think helped a little (from memory), but the zone valves didn't close. Expanded is the correct value to use so that when no heat is being demanded for a zone, the zone valves are closed etc. Once I had set this setting all seemed okay.

Having lived with the new controllers for nearly a week now, I'm looking to purchase a VR 921 so I can control the system from my mobile. Unfortunately, either Vaillant aren't manufacturing many of these, or they aren't being shipped to the UK, but I haven't found any company that has any stock I can purchase!

As much as I quite like the new controllers (they are much better than the old ones), I wish Vaillant would design the menu options such that it was nice and easy (quick) to view the status of all zones. To do this it is necessary to go into the Installer Configuration menu and navigate to each zone in turn. Why, this isn't configuration, it's system information? I want to see at a glance which zones are demanding heat i.e. which zone valves are open and possibly, what their flow temperatures are, as well as the current temperature of the zone. The latter is possible from the Information menu, but not the rest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top