UPVC Windows in Listed Building

[KMBoro]

Hi,
I have been searching through the threads about UPVC windows in lsited buildings and it has made for interesting reading, however they don't quite answer my question so here goes:

I am looking at buying a Georgian Terraced house Grade 2 listed. The back of the house has some original wooden sashes, however the front are all UPVC "mock" Georgian with fake glazing bars. I called the Buildings and Regs department today and they stated that no planning permission had been sought to put them in and did I want to raise an "enforcement order" on the vendor, which I immediately said no.

I called the Estate Agent who spoke with the vendor, who said that the wondows were like that when he moved in and he had had no enforcement order and it shouldn't be a problem.

If I buy the property, do I become liable, is a local council able to force me to get them changed at my cost, and if so should I put this to the vendor and ask him to get it done, but I imagine that it wouldn't be cheap and he wouldn't be happy.

If anyone has any experience or advice please let me know and thanks in advance

 

[^woody^]

There are no time limits for beaches of listed building consent. And carrying out unauthorised work is automatically an offence.

Enforcement is served on the current owner.

It's a significant risk buying a listed building with potentially unauthorised work, and there is no way to mitigate it.

 

[KMBoro]

Thanks Woody, so in reality I should instruct the Conservation Officer to issue an enforcement order....seems harsh but I don't want to have to foot the bill. Thing is there are plenty on the street who have UPVC windows, however nothing seems to have been done about it. From the research I have done it the whole world of LBC seems like a lottery depending on where you are or who the Officer is

 

[tony1851]

Anyone who buys a listed building buys a load of trouble.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I should instruct the Conservation Officer to issue an enforcement order....seems harsh but I don't want to have to foot the bill.

Harsh? FFS just don't buy it rather than potentially completely screwing the current owner! Unbelievable!

 

[KMBoro]

To the extent that you totally wouldn't bother Tony?
I think you replied to my first thread on this forum - the house I am looking to buy has a basement converted into an air raid shelter....I must be a glutton for punishment!

 

[KMBoro]

I should instruct the Conservation Officer to issue an enforcement order....seems harsh but I don't want to have to foot the bill.

Harsh? FFS just don't buy it rather than potentially completely screwing the current owner! Unbelievable!

Not sure what you are getting at there like - I wanna buy the house, and don't wanna have to foot the bill for having to change the wondows - it is his house, he should pay to get it done not a potential buyer - the conveyancing solicitors will find that there is no LBC on the windows, why should that become my issue and not the vendor's?

 

[^woody^]

It all depends on the listing, and what parts of the property are special and need retaining.

Check the listing, and check the planning history and conditions at the council.

 

[KMBoro]

It all depends on the listing, and what parts of the property are special and need retaining.

Check the listing, and check the planning history and conditions at the council.

Yeah I called them today and they said that the windows should be timbered sash and not uPVC - that is when she said "do you want me to issue an enforcement order?"

 

[^woody^]

If there is no record of a building regs approval, and they look like they are less than 14 or so years old, then the owner is either nieve or pulling a fast one, and has not bothered to get building regs or planning consent. Which raises the question about the rest of the property.

I'd suggest that the estate agent should be pointing this out, and your conveyancer should certainly advise you not to proceed even if you started the process.

If you are interested in the property then this needs to be sorted out early on, and that will mean involving the planners to get a definitive answer.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Not sure what you are getting at there like - I wanna buy the house, and don't wanna have to foot the bill for having to change the wondows - it is his house, he should pay to get it done not a potential buyer - the conveyancing solicitors will find that there is no LBC on the windows, why should that become my issue and not the vendor's?

I should have thought it was pretty clear what I'm getting at. So lets suppose you complain, the council bring enforcement action and then you pull out of the sale for other reasons. Where does that leave the seller? Screwed buy some pipe dreamer. I hope if you complain the buyers gets wind of you and then lets you go all the way and then tells you to bugger off the day before you think you're gonna exchange just to spite you.

 

[KMBoro]

Not sure what you are getting at there like - I wanna buy the house, and don't wanna have to foot the bill for having to change the wondows - it is his house, he should pay to get it done not a potential buyer - the conveyancing solicitors will find that there is no LBC on the windows, why should that become my issue and not the vendor's?

I should have thought it was pretty clear what I'm getting at. So lets suppose you complain, the council bring enforcement action and then you pull out of the sale for other reasons. Where does that leave the seller? Screwed buy some pipe dreamer. I hope if you complain the buyers gets wind of you and then lets you go all the way and then tells you to bugger off the day before you think you're gonna exchange just to spite you.

Are you for real? When I spoke with the solicitors who are gonna do the conveyancing they asked if there had been any alterations such as extensions or new windows - I told them about the uPVC windows they said I should find out if there was LBC, there isn't, so why should I have to foot any potential replacement bill. I didn't get the windows put in, therefore not my issue, up to him to sort it not me.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Are you for real?

Absolutely. I just hope the seller is off a vindictive nature and has thee means to screw you too.

 

[^woody^]

I should have thought it was pretty clear what I'm getting at.

Chill.

The op wants to buy the place, but he does not want to be lumbered with any enforcement. This will need to be addressed early on either way, so it's not as if the OP needs to complain, more so needs the council to be involved. And if need be, the windows to be changed by mutual agreement or formal notice.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]