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berty3000

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20%... What the fk is that all about?

We might take it for granted, but think about it...

You've already paid income tax and national insurance, then, when you want to spend what is left on yourself and your family, they take 20% of what you spend!

This is a highly regressive tax that hits the poorest hardest.

Where it is especially noticeable and grotesque is when you want to replace the windows on your house or undertake some other improvements, to keep your family safe and warm from the elements, and seeing what 20% looks like for a job costing thousands. This is disgusting.

And what are they spending the money on exactly? Not road surfaces, a lot of which now look like a model of the Himalayas. Not on improving access to and the quality of dental treatment. Not most things we actually need or want. No, it's being wasted on lying criminals who live for free in hotels and it is being wasted on the Ukraine and the middle east.

The less money these scoundrels are given the better but, for the love of good, at least give people a break for essential repairs to the home and other such necessities!

What is the Labour proposal on this if they form a government? Will they be helping out the working man and woman, the ordinary folk, and reducing the VAT rate? I might vote for them if so.
 
robinbanks said:
Raise your complaints with someone who can do something about them
Click to expand...

Yes, raising this with my MP is going to make a world of difference...

What is required is for more people to think about and discuss the issue and for it to become part of a national conversation. Also, as mentioned, I may vote for a party that proposes to reduce the rate to a more reasonable level.
 
So if VAT were cut, direct taxes would have to rise to compensate

You can’t it both ways
 
Attention should be on income tax being reduced and VAT raised. Then those working the black market pay more tax.
 
Murdochcat said:
So if VAT were cut, direct taxes would have to rise to compensate

You can’t it both ways
Click to expand...

Wrong.

There's also an option which involves: spending less money.

There is so much low-hanging fruit - most people have no clue just how staggering the level of waste is.
 
berty3000 said:
Wrong.

There's also an option which involves: spending less money.

There is so much low-hanging fruit - most people have no clue just how staggering the level of waste is.
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with that.

And if that was true then the money could be spent on important things like fixing the roads for example
 
berty3000 said:
Wrong.

There's also an option which involves: spending less money.

There is so much low-hanging fruit - most people have no clue just how staggering the level of waste is.
Click to expand...
Austerity you mean.

Have you not noticed it made things worse
 
berty3000 said:
Wrong.

There's also an option which involves: spending less money.

There is so much low-hanging fruit - most people have no clue just how staggering the level of waste is.
Click to expand...
Think of the money that could be saved by cutting police numbers by twenty thousand.

Or cutting NHS capital spending with the population ageing.

Or reducing road maintenance.

We could spend the money saved on a new train line from Old Oak Common to Birmingham

Or a new yacht for the Bra Baroness.
 
Murdochcat said:
Not sure I agree with that.

And if that was true then the money could be spent on important things like fixing the roads for example
Click to expand...

What do you know about public sector procurement?

I can tell you that tens of billions of pounds are wasted per annum. And it isn't in the low tens.

Have you ever worked in the public sector and seen how it works?

There is a significant proportion of staff in the civil service, particularly amongst the 100,000 recent new recruits, on generous salaries, getting sick and holiday pay, with final salary pension schemes accruing - who are doing NOTHING. Literally. And amongst those who do have work assigned to them, I can tell you now that neither you nor any other member of the public would notice if these roles and the work they involve were deleted.

There is now an army of people involved in implementing, monitoring and enforcing ridiculous and frankly damaging DEI and ESG metrics. There is far more though.

Ever worked in a public sector organisation and needed to order a HDMI cable? They will £20 for it to a special rip off provider who won the procurement process (a complex load of shyte that only rip off companies seem to win) when they could've ordered one for 99p online. When you get into the realms of complex infrastructure projects, defence procurement, nuclear power - the same effect is in action but greatly magnified.

Here are some other things that spring to mind...

- The foreign aid budget. Let's stop giving away a billion a month. No reason why charities can't deal with this through voluntary donations.

- HS2: should never have got off the ground. Basically means a longer journey between London and Birmingham, benefitting nobody. Even if it were faster - how many people live near enough to a station and can afford the tickets? How much has that cost? The railways in general are mostly a subsidy to the middle classes and those who live near stations.

- Putting lying scum, who pretend to be refugees, in hotels and other accommodation. We are all paying for them to live here. To have heating, electricity, food, clothing, entertainment, a roof over their head, legal representation through their never ending asylum appeals. Let's stop doing this.

- Smart motorways... not so smart, and not so cheap either. Probably have damaged the economy through the endless construction process. What can we learn?

- Sending billions to Ukraine where it will disappear into the pockets of crooks and only prolong the death and destruction, and delay the inevitable. Let's not.

- No more bail outs of companies. If they go bust, they go bust.

- Stop subsidising green energy, which is unreliable, inconsistent and very expensive. Our energy bills are now three times higher than they were a few years ago. Some global events will have had an effect but the main culprit has been the government's energy policy.

- No more stupid traffic schemes that create one way systems and waste loads of space on cyclists, then have to be reversed again because they don't work and nobody wants them.

- No more money for sex change operations or associated procedures.

There - those are just a few examples off the top of my head. You might not agree with some of them. That's fine. But the above saves, or would have saved, an absolutely vast sum of money. And it is only the low hanging fruit.

Public sector procurement is a seriously disastrous waste of money and it is going on every single day. Sorry, but pot holes would cost peanuts in comparison to what I'm talking about.

We have a massive tax bill because the state is enormous, riddled with incompetence and waste, and because governments seem to have forgotten how to spend less money. You know, that thing that us normal people do sometimes?

I find it incredible that so many people not only accept but defend this state of affairs. How high do taxes have to be and how insane must the largesse become before people will object!?
 
berty3000 said:
spending less money.
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Cutting public services.

The idea is attractive to elderly Tories

The effects, not so much.

"In May 2010, the median waiting time for patients on the NHS was 5.5 weeks. The median as of February this year was 14.8 and two weeks worse or more in 59 Tory seats, the FT found.

The dysfunctional state of the NHS is a key issue for voters. A recent YouGov tracker poll found 45 per cent of people listed health as one of the three biggest issues facing the country, just behind the economy on 51 per cent.

In March, an analysis from the King’s Fund and Nuffield Trust showed overall satisfaction with the NHS falling to 24 per cent in 2023, while dissatisfaction levels were at a record 52 per cent."

FT.com
 
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