Vinyl on Bitumen kitchen floor

[billm]

The kitchen in my mothers 1980's bungalow was extended about 20 years ago. The original floor is bitumen with red bitumen floor tiles, the extension floor is concrete. They have had a carpet fitted over thin underlay for many years which we had removed earlier this year when the house was decorated.

I thought Vinyl would be more manageable so we got a carpet fitter to pull up the old nasty carpet & underlay and replace with Vinyl.

Now, some 3 months later there are black stains coming up through the Vinyl. The area stained most is where people have stood while they are working by the worktops, preparing food etc. So maybe standing on the bitumen regularly in the same are has caused it to weep and leach up ?

I've pulled back the vinyl and it looks a bit damp under it although it's definitely not water as it's bone dry behind all the kick boards. It looks to me that the bitumen has leached through the vinyl in places and of course the vinyl is now ruined.

Before I replace the vinyl with new, can I have recomendations how to seal the floor so it doesn't leach through again ?

My first thought would be to put thin ply down but screwing it down into brittle bitumen may not be easy. Another option suggested was to put a thin plastic membrane over the bitumen floor under the vinyl, leave the current vinyl down, put another thin plastic sheet over that and then lay the new vinyl on top, thus using the plastic sheets to seal the bitumen floor. Would this cause the bitumen to sweat though ?

Or would I be better sealing the floor with ??? and then screed over it and lay the new vinyl on top. If so what products whould I need to use to seal and screed it ?

Any recomendations please ?

thanks

 

[robinbanks]

Consider getting those tiles tested for the presence of asbestos if youre going to chisel/grind them up

 

[crazydaze]

A couple of options open to you.

Simplest solution would be to lift the vinyl etc, clean the floor and overlay those tiles with F-Ball Isolator membrane. This will seal off the tiles and leave a flat surface to lay the vinyl to and you won't need to worry about the subfloor or contamination. all the works can be done in one visit.

Option 2 will require a proper moisture test of the subfloor with a protimeter and/or hydrometer to determinne if there is residual moisture in the floor.

If there is no residual moisture in the floor then screed over the tiles with a quality mositure tolerant screed like Arditex Ardit NA and fit the new vinyl.

If moisture is present, you'll need to screed the tiles with a moisture tolerant screed like Arditex Ardit NA, apply a Liquid DPM Screed like Arditex DPM1-C and add another screed layer of Arditex NA then lay the vinyl.

 

[billm]

Consider getting those tiles tested for the presence of asbestos if youre going to chisel/grind them up

Yeah, I'm not lifting them, no need to disturb potential asbestos

 

[billm]

A couple of options open to you.

Simplest solution would be to lift the vinyl etc, clean the floor and overlay those tiles with F-Ball Isolator membrane. This will seal off the tiles and leave a flat surface to lay the vinyl to and you won't need to worry about the subfloor or contamination. all the works can be done in one visit.

Option 2 will require a proper moisture test of the subfloor with a protimeter and/or hydrometer to determinne if there is residual moisture in the floor.

If there is no residual moisture in the floor then screed over the tiles with a quality mositure tolerant screed like Arditex Ardit NA and fit the new vinyl.

If moisture is present, you'll need to screed the tiles with a moisture tolerant screed like Arditex Ardit NA, apply a Liquid DPM Screed like Arditex DPM1-C and add another screed layer of Arditex NA then lay the vinyl.

Wow the price of that F-Ball membrane !!

Would vapour barrier not do the same job. If it keeps Radon down surely it can deal with Bitumen ?

Appreciate the advice of the different screeds, that is very helpful and most appreciated, cheers

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Wow the price of that F-Ball membrane !!

If you think that is expensive try the stuff we have used when lifting and/or repairing parquet flooring. Because we'd normally do repairs on existing parquet using Lecol products we have also done the sort of job you are talking about using Wakol MS330 (primer DPM), Wakol D3045 (gritted primer) and Wakol Z520 (levelling compound) - materials specified by the client. All expensive, but they do the job, however laying vinyl over that lot becomes pretty much a day's work if not more due to the time it takes to mix and lay the material as well as drying/setting time. Most domestic customers, I'm sure, wouldn't stomach that sort of cost if offered the option

Would vapour barrier not do the same job. If it keeps Radon down surely it can deal with Bitumen ?

Maybe, but it (the bitumen) probably won't be flat (so that will "telegraph" through the vinyl over time) and I'm left with the feeling that vinyl will potentially creep on top of polythene (e.g. Visqueen). Or maybe I'm just being cautious

 

[crazydaze]

Wow the price of that F-Ball membrane !!

Would vapour barrier not do the same job. If it keeps Radon down surely it can deal with Bitumen ?

Appreciate the advice of the different screeds, that is very helpful and most appreciated, cheers

Vapour membrane doesn’t do the same job.

Isolator will create a breathable moisture barrier, isolate the bitumen AND create a perfectly smooth surface to lay the vinyl on to.

If you put vapour membrane down then fit tte vinyl, the floor will likely sweat and the design of the tiles will show through the vinyl.

The correct way to deal with your issue has been detailed by myself and a couple of other posts on the thread now, anything else would be considered a bodge.

Considering with the membrane it can be fitted and the vinyl laid in a morning, it’s by far the easiest and fastest solution.

If you need to DPM those tiles you are looking at a few days of disruption:

Day 1: uplift old vinyl, clean floor, Arden NA floor, you can’t walk on it for a few hours
Day 2: apply Ardit liquid DPM - room will be out of use for most of the day
Day 3: apply Ardit NA screed - room will be out of use for a few hours
Day 4: fit vinyl.

The costs of the screeds, liquid DPM and labour to sort would soon bring the budget for the Isolator membrane into play.

 

[dazlight]

As dave said above is the way to go to do it correct.