Vive La France!

[noseall]

Whoa, back off.
I fully support your argument about abortion. In fact I think I am more liberal about it than you are. I admire your commitment and intensity.


I tried to take the personality, and the people out of the discussion.

I'm making statements, presenting questions, not pointing the finger.

 

[noseall]

It's complicated!!

Approving an abortion is not complicated though. Two doctors sign it off - approved.

 

[space junkie]

Approving an abortion is not complicated though. Two doctors sign it off - approved.

"Approved".
Whether it was approved of, by the RMP, is irrelevant.

Referring to the several distinct meanings of 'approval' mentioned in this discussion.
May I suggest that the simple additon of the word 'of' added after the word 'approval' makes all the difference, and obvious?
Consider the following two sentences:
1. The planning comittee aproved my proposal.
2. The planning comittee aproved of my proposal.

I'll leave it to the various participants to consider the differences in the two sentences.

 

[JonathanM]

"Approved".
Whether it was approved of, by the RMP, is irrelevant.

It's a pity nobody's thought of that

 

[noseall]

"Approved".
Whether it was approved of, by the RMP, is irrelevant.

Quite.

 

[Notch7]

Now I've done some Googling, I've found an interesting article in the Guardian, which looks at why more women than men oppose abortion. It concludes there are many overlapping and complex reasons. I've never really thought about any of this stuff before. It's complicated!!

Why are women more opposed to abortion? | Martin Robbins

Martin Robbins: Polls in recent years show that men support more liberal abortion laws than women – even among Catholics. Are they accurate, and if so what could explain the counterintuitive gender divide?

www.theguardian.com

89% women think abortion should be allowed
86% men think abortion should be allowed

Where does the British public stand on abortion in 2023? | YouGov

Abortion is widely supported in the UK

yougov.co.uk

 

[JonathanM]

89% women think abortion should be allowed
86% men think abortion should be allowed

Where does the British public stand on abortion in 2023? | YouGov

Abortion is widely supported in the UK

yougov.co.uk

I think the difference is that the Guardian looked at a number of different polls covering both those who wanted an outright ban and those who wanted further restrictions. Did you read the article? It's very interesting.

For example:

“Polls consistently show … that women are more likely than men to support a reduction on the abortion limit. In the 2011 YouGov poll 28% of men supported a reduction, 46% of women did. In the 2012 YouGov poll 24% of men supported a reduction, 49% of women did. In the Angus Reid poll 35% of men supported a reduction in the limit, 59% of women did. In the ICM poll 45% of men supported a reduction to 20 weeks, 59% of women did.”

The difference even holds up when you poll Catholics. A second University of Lancaster survey carried out last autumn found that 40% of Catholic men supported a reduction or ban, against 57% of Catholic women. Exactly the same difference in percentage points that they found among the general population.

So around 24 to 35% of men want to put more restrictions on abortion, against 43 to 59% of women – a consistent gap of around 20 percentage points. That raises some pretty big implications, the most obvious being that if it were left to women to vote on the issue, with men out of the picture, there’s a good chance that the result would be in favour of restricting abortion. On the flip side, if only men voted, they’d almost certainly vote in favour of women’s reproductive rights.

Interestingly, 53% of women in that survey believed that life begins at conception, against 35% of men

I think what I have learnt overall is that this can't be simply boiled down into religious nutters and women haters.

 

[noseall]

I think what I have learnt overall is that this can't be simply boiled down into religious nutters and women haters.

Looking at those polls:

I think overall, a large majority of UK people want access to abortion..

I think overall that RWR religious fruitcakes and women haters don't.

 

[JonathanM]

Looking at those polls:

I think overall, a large majority of UK people want access to abortion..

I think overall that RWR religious fruitcakes and women haters don't.

Maybe those who want an outright ban in all situations are as you describe.

But what I found most interesting is that, by a large and consistent margin, women are more in favour of tightening the restrictions on abortion than men. I was totally unaware of this until today. Another thing I have learnt from this thread.

 

[Notch7]

I think the difference is that the Guardian looked at a number of different polls covering both those who wanted an outright ban and those who wanted further restrictions. Did you read the article? It's very interesting.

For example:









I think what I have learnt overall is that this can't be simply boiled down into religious nutters and women haters.

I did indeed read it.

It doesn’t really reach any conclusions other than it seems consistent among polls.

Maybe it’s just women are meant to be nurturing so perhaps it’s driven by social expectations.

 

[space junkie]

I think the difference is that the Guardian looked at a number of different polls covering both those who wanted an outright ban and those who wanted further restrictions. Did you read the article? It's very interesting.

For example:









I think what I have learnt overall is that this can't be simply boiled down into religious nutters and women haters.

Is this not just picking round the edges of a policy that is well supported by most people?

89% women think abortion should be allowed
86% men think abortion should be allowed

Where does the British public stand on abortion in 2023? | YouGov

Abortion is widely supported in the UK

yougov.co.uk

Is there some subtle point in picking round the edges, especially in such detail, of a popular policy?

 

[JonathanM]

Is this not just picking round the edges of a policy that is well supported by most people?

I don't know what you are getting at. It's just an interesting article discussing public opinion. It's not advocating anything.

 

[ajohn]

Parents (the woman) can choose to either abort the foetus, or allow the pregnenacy to go full term.

That is a fact and the current rules allow for that. Could the problem be that some people can't imagine themselves being in situation where an abortion could be the best way forwards?

Do people think that there were no abortions carried out in the UK before the act was introduced? They'd be wrong but techniques relate to a link that was posted mentioning complications that don't apply to situations where the abortion is done correctly with some degree of medical monitoring.

I do know a couple that had an illegal abortion. The correct pills at the correct time and at home. They were bought from some one. The reason. In part financial but that led to a flat that was totally unsuitable for either bring up a baby or a child. This was after the act was introduced. That coincides with when the pill was available to all not just married women. A question? Unwanted pregnancies happen so did they do the correct thing? Later, bought a house and had child. 2 more since.

 

[Odds]

Says who? Why do you think it is specific to one religion? How have you decided that a fertilised egg is a child?

At what age does human life stop being sacrosant?

Take it up with Christian Evangelicals in America who campaigned to overturn Roe v Wade.
The same people who vote for Trump and support Israel's genocide in Gaza.
Ask them about the sanctity of life.

 

[JohnD]

Take it up with Christian Evangelicals in America

I can take it up with space junkie who made the claims on this forum.