Vive La France!

[noseall]

The 2 doctor aspect - a red herring. Far too many short term abortions for that to be a really significant aspect.

Explain?

 

[JonathanM]

Widespread?

Certainly, going back a few years. Hopefully, it is better now. This is from 2014.

Pre-signing abortion forms is illegal, General Medical Council admits

Nearly 70 doctors who were found to be pre-signing abortion forms without knowing anything about the individuals involved were breaking the law, the head of the General Medical Council admitted

www.telegraph.co.uk

More than 60 doctors who pre-signed abortion forms without knowing anything about the women concerned did break the law, the head of the General Medical Council admitted last night as pressure grew on police to investigate.
Niall Dickson, chief executive and registrar of the GMC, said the 67 physicians were acting “against the law” but insisted no patients had come to harm as a result.
He claimed the practice of pre-signing the forms had become widespread but was “unacceptable” and vowed to “bring this unlawful and unacceptable practice to an end”.

 

[Vinty]

How can vinty and his loopy mates have a funeral, if they don't know? Do they mourn every bloody discharge, just in case there is embryonic matter present? Is there a gravestone?

Are you mentally ill.
Why are so full of hate.
Women who have had miscarriages do have religious services to mourn the loss of their child and usually the remains will be buried.
Why are you so deliberately ignorant about the nature of abortion.
What would you tell a grieving mother who has just lost her unborn child through an involuntary miscarriage.
Would you tell her to stop moaning, it was just waste body tissue, no worse than having an ingrowing toenail removed.

You have the same mentality of those Roman Catholic religious creeps who dumped still born babies in septic tanks.

I can't believe your ignorance of basic biology.

 

[noseall]

Are you mentally ill.

...says confused religious fruit-loop vinty. Miscarriage? Why don't you start a new thread.

You and your fellow religious women hating morons, make me sick.

 

[noseall]

Certainly, going back a few years. Hopefully, it is better now. This is from 2014.

Pre-signing abortion forms is illegal, General Medical Council admits

Nearly 70 doctors who were found to be pre-signing abortion forms without knowing anything about the individuals involved were breaking the law, the head of the General Medical Council admitted

www.telegraph.co.uk

60 odd out of a 200'000 plus per annum?

 

[motorbiking]

60 doctors found doing it, not 60 forms found pre-signed and these were just those that they could spot because of discrepancies. Widespread

 

[JonathanM]

60 odd out of a 200'000 plus per annum?

Not just a few forms. Almost 70 doctors doing it routinely. But as I said above, it was quite a long time ago now and, hopefully, it no longer goes on. It followed on from this.

Abortion forms being 'pre-signed'

Spot checks found evidence of blank forms being signed in anticipation of patients seeking a termination

www.theguardian.com

The inspections in England, by officials from the Care Quality Commission (CQC), were ordered by the health secretary, Andrew Lansley.

Of more than 250 clinics investigated so far, it is thought 15% to 20% may be breaking the law.

 

[space junkie]

Women who have had miscarriages do have religious services to mourn the loss of their child and usually the remains will be buried.

Women who have had terminations or miscarriages can have a funeral if they wish.
They also have other choices for disposal of the Human Tissue.

What would you tell a grieving mother who has just lost her unborn child through an involuntary miscarriage.

Completely different, one is an elected termination, which this thread is about.
The other is an unwanted miscarriage due to a natural phenomenon, which this thread is not about.


I'm surprised that you didn't know the difference.

I can't believe your ignorance of basic biology.

 

[space junkie]

Not just a few forms. Almost 70 doctors doing it routinely. But as I said above, it was quite a long time ago now and, hopefully, it no longer goes on. It followed on from this.

Abortion forms being 'pre-signed'

Spot checks found evidence of blank forms being signed in anticipation of patients seeking a termination

www.theguardian.com

Where does the word "routinely" appear in the article?
Or was it added by you to add colour to the article?

The inspections in England, by officials from the Care Quality Commission (CQC), were ordered by the health secretary, Andrew Lansley.

Of more than 250 clinics investigated so far, it is thought 15% to 20% may be breaking the law.

The clinics included those run by the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS), Marie Stopes, the NHS and private firms.

Marie Stopes said none of its 19 units was found to have breached the rules, while BPAS said that to the best of its knowledge none of its clinics was involved.

Abortion forms being 'pre-signed'

Spot checks found evidence of blank forms being signed in anticipation of patients seeking a termination

www.theguardian.com

So only NHS and private clinics were involved?
That suggests the parlous state of the NHS at that time. (2012).

In addition, Andrew Lansley was the minister in charge of Health at the time, and had been overseeing the reduction in staffing levels in the NHS, despite his apparent dishonest claim that staffing levels had increased.
He was mired in a number of controversies during his tenure as minister for Health.

On 13 April 2011, 96 per cent of 497 delegates at the Royal College of Nursing conference backed a motion of no confidence questioning Andrew Lansley's handling of NHS reforms in England

His comments at the conference were met with uproar from nurses and union members in the audience with heckling and some shouting "liar".

On 28 June 2012, doctors meeting at a British Medical Association conference voted in favour of calling for Andrew Lansley's resignation

In November 2010, Lansley provoked controversy by factoring into public health related bills representations from fast food companies such as McDonald's, KFC and processed food and drink manufacturers PepsiCo, Kellogg's, Unilever, Mars and Diageo on obesity, diet-related disease and alcohol, said by campaign groups[which?] to be the equivalent of handing smoking policy over to the tobacco industry

All articles from:

Andrew Lansley - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There were other controversies involving Andrew Lansley.

The inspections in England, by officials from the Care Quality Commission (CQC), were ordered by the health secretary, Andrew Lansley.
...
The chief executive of BPAS, Ann Furedi, said she was appalled the media had been told about the latest inspections before the clinics.
...
"BPAS is shocked and appalled that Mr Lansley has found it necessary to inform journalists of alleged breaches of the abortion law before he has informed those responsible for providing the services that have been investigated, and before the investigation is concluded."

Abortion forms being 'pre-signed'

Spot checks found evidence of blank forms being signed in anticipation of patients seeking a termination

www.theguardian.com

Sounds like a man with a vengeance.
I don't recall any other Health Minister causing so much controversy with the NHS.

 

[ajohn]

Explain?

Go and look at the time from conception to having an abortion. The wiki page has a chart on it. It infers it doesn't take all that long to get things signed up.

This also has to include the time it takes a woman to know she is pregnant. The ability to become pregnant is late in the cycle.

 

[JonathanM]

Sounds like a man with a vengeance.
I don't recall any other Health Minister causing so much controversy with the NHS.

That doesn't change the fact that pre-signing of forms used to happen. Hopefully, it no longer does.

 

[ajohn]

Of course you can have the opinion that life begins at conception and still be in favour of the abortion laws we have.

Some aspects of our laws consider the prospects of the child in an odd way. The majority of females or parents plan to have a baby at some point in time. Maybe never. There are reasons behind what ever plan they have. An unwanted pregnancy crops up, They have the baby. That can result in regretful parents which probably wont be good for the child. Finances can figure and that may also not be good for the child. Factors I haven't thought of.

It all may sound rather extreme but the fact is the vast majority of babies just get born.

 

[space junkie]

That doesn't change the fact that pre-signing of forms used to happen. Hopefully, it no longer does.

You're right.
But if the NHS were suffering poor staffing levels and lack of sufficient funding, due to the minister that initiated the investigation, and possibly his vexatious attitude, it's all relevant and understandable.

 

[ajohn]

That doesn't change the fact that pre-signing of forms used to happen

This reminds me of GP's. I used to see a chatty one at times. Now and again they have been expected to sign certain things. I'm thinking of sick notes and what the gov wanted at one point. As a body they just flatly decided to not comply. There isn't much a gov can do about that really. It was a crazy idea anyway. As I was allowed a certain number of sick days the change didn't concern me so I just mentioned it. If the idea had been implemented I'd probably find I was allowed none other than with a sick note from a GP. Like the people I worked with I hardly ever took any sick time off anyway.

So some one wants a phone call abortion via a clinic. They face a triage system. Do the doctors take note of what came out from that or interview themselves? Should they be answering phones all day? NHS via a GP. Very probably much the same but maybe the GP signs one of the forms as these days they have more influence on referrals. They are more of a triage now to cut down referrals to consultants.

 

[noseall]

Go and look at the time from conception to having an abortion. The wiki page has a chart on it. It infers it doesn't take all that long to get things signed up.

I've read numerous accounts of the sign off process and it's issues. Many doctors feel it is overly restrictive (early term abortion) and would like to see it relaxed.
There are numerous accounts of unnecessary delay due to the problems with two doctor approval.
Dr Tony Calland is one such campaigner to relax the rules regards early abortion.
Not a red herring at all.