What do I do with a bad builder?

[bluevanman71]

I have had a builder in now for 4 months. I say the word 'in' very loosely - as I don't think he has been there very much at all. I have had a string of excuses and every illness under the sun for the last 2 months and the house is a complete tip. Looks like they have been mixing plaster on the new kitchen floor. They have thrown out (or sold) washing machines, rugs - all sorts of things from the house which I didn't authorise them to do!

He started off well - I checked in with him a few times early on and he seemed to be making good progress. After a couple of months - I go back and am horrified by the state of the property. The new kitchen worktops have been ruined - looks like a child has been let loose with a router. Kitchen floor has been very badly fitted, plumbing to radiators looks very dodgy...
Finally got him back on the job this week - as I wanted to get some work done for what I've paid - but feel I am fighting a losing battle.

I know you'll probably say just ditch him and get someone else to finish off - but it just makes me so angry that I have paid for work that hasn't been done - and there will be no chance of me getting anything back from him. The only thing is - is that he has left all his tools here - I don't suppose I can hold onto all of them until he makes good his mistakes or pays to get the work corrected - or will that just make me as bad as him??

I have learnt my lesson and I know I should have been there more often to check up on him.
Is it worth taking him to court - as we only had a very loose contract - detailing agreed quote, works to be completed, stage payments and target completion date (which was end of April!!)
Or shall I just move on and put it all down to lessons learnt?

Thanks

 

[cjard]

Confiscating tools will make it rather hard for him to finish the job, and giving them back to enable work would see them bundled into a van and him scarpering

Taking him to court will probably reveal him owning nothing/it's all in his wife's name and they've "separated"/his company folding and reappearing the following week with a new name. Even if you do secure a win, you'll likely never see a penny of what the court says you're due

It's a horrible thing, that there's almost no recourse to being ripped off in this way, but it wouldn't be a cliche in the industry if it didn't go on. You're also in the situation where you're not happy with the quality of his work so it doesn't really make sense to invite him to do more.. Unless he's ok but has been sending low quality subbies to the job

Perhaps best to take the punch on the nose and get someone else in.. Pay them a day rate, pay them weekly and if they start to dick you around, you've lost at most a week's cash. Though I'm not a tradesman, I have a time lapse camera for charting the progress of my own selfbuild and i set it going to watch me working on the house. the trades I get in are happy to let it watch them work too, even appreciate getting the vids as they occasionally use them for their own portfolios. If you're leaving builders to it, getting an idea of their rate of progress is a good idea, though keep in mind that nearly everyone overestimates their ability to get through the work. I've lost count of the number of times I've not got as far as I thought I would. How can it have taken all day just to do that? Well, it's there on the video and I can see I'm not faffing about, it just.. Really did take that long

Carefully consider where selling his tools to recoup some of the loss sits on your moral compass as it is technically theft. I think I'd be tempted to be more upfront about it in the sense of "not happy with the quality or progress and I'd like you to stop work, you haven't reached the agreed stage X paid for already so please bring Y amount of cash back with you when you come to collect your tools. Please do this within 14 days"

 

[FiremanT]

A major factor in this scenario is the builder size/customer size ratio.
Sad but true.

How much are you out of pocket?

 

[chappers]

What CJ says to an extent is true, when we all first started out most of us over estimated our abilities, under quoted etc. But if he is an experienced builder that shouldn't be the case now. But it doesn't appear that this is the problem here, but his lack of time on site. that combined with the poor quality of his work and the lack of care for your property, I don't think you have any real alternative other than to sack him off.
I too would be up front with him as CJ says. You do have a contract with him with all of the documents you mention forming that contract. Go through it see which of the parts are finished to your satisfaction as a general proportion of the contract and compare that to the percentage of the quote you have paid him (I know this isn't quite accurate as different tasks apportion different costs) and that will give you a starting point as to how far out of pocket you are at this stage.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Get him back and innocently inisist that he work only on the jobs that he can't easily f*** up. Wait until he's done enough work to be worth the money you've already given him, then drop the bomb and get someone else to do the remainder.

 

[SammyInnit]

The way it would be looked at down any legal route is, regardless of what work he hasn't done or the quality of work, you still wouldn't be able to legally hold on to them as a trade off for completion or refund.

Was there any written agreement?

I often wonder, slightly off topic but when I take on work on a commercial basis I have to sign on to an order agreement so I'm left liable for any work that's incompleted, late or unsatisfactory. Why isn't it common place for private works?

 

[noseall]

I often wonder, slightly off topic but when I take on work on a commercial basis I have to sign on to an order agreement so I'm left liable for any work that's incompleted, late or unsatisfactory. Why isn't it common place for private works?

It wouldn't benefit the customer on a tit for tat basis as they would come off worse.

Financially speaking it would be a huge detriment to the customer as well.

 

[SammyInnit]

I often wonder, slightly off topic but when I take on work on a commercial basis I have to sign on to an order agreement so I'm left liable for any work that's incompleted, late or unsatisfactory. Why isn't it common place for private works?

It wouldn't benefit the customer on a tit for tat basis as they would come off worse.

Financially speaking it would be a huge detriment to the customer as well.

I don't see how signing your contractor into an agreement would be detrimental to the customer? A contract holds that builder bang to rights.

If the contractor refuses then straight away you know they can't deliver on their word.

 

[noseall]

I don't see how signing your contractor into an agreement would be detrimental to the customer? A contract holds that builder bang to rights.

If the contractor refuses then straight away you know they can't deliver on their word.

A contractor is not going to agree to a one sided contract. The contractor will expect the customer to fulfill things on their side of the bargain. Customers often fall short.
The contractor will build in a financial buffer to deal with unwanted or unreasonable requests.

 

[SammyInnit]

I don't see how signing your contractor into an agreement would be detrimental to the customer? A contract holds that builder bang to rights.

If the contractor refuses then straight away you know they can't deliver on their word.

A contractor is not going to agree to a one sided contract. The contractor will expect the customer to fulfill things on their side of the bargain. Customers often fall short.
The contractor will build in a financial buffer to deal with unwanted or unreasonable requests.

And people wonder why they're left **** out with crap workmanship.

Personally I generally work for companies that require you to sign on to such contracts. At the same time I'm confident in my work so I don't hesitate.

 

[noseall]

Personally I generally work for companies that require you to sign on to such contracts. At the same time I'm confident in my work so I don't hesitate.

Ok here is the deal. Ill agree to your demands if....

You will ensure all vehicles are off the drive by 7:40 am. (never happens)

You will have the garage cleared and the rear garden clear by the time we start the job (never happens).

Have any rooms clear as and when we need to work in them. (never happens)

Have any of your part of the contract ready on time (for customers that like to pick there own contractors) whether that be sorting your own windows, plumber, electrician etc etc. (never happens).
I could go on.

And people wonder why they're left **** out with crap workmanship

I wonder too.

 

[SammyInnit]

Personally I generally work for companies that require you to sign on to such contracts. At the same time I'm confident in my work so I don't hesitate.

Ok here is the deal. Ill agree to your demands if....

You will ensure all vehicles are off the drive by 7:40 am. (never happens)

You will have the garage cleared and the rear garden clear by the time we start the job (never happens).

Have any rooms clear as and when we need to work in them. (never happens)

Have any of your part of the contract ready on time (for customers that like to pick there own contractors) whether that be sorting your own windows, plumber, electrician etc etc. (never happens).
I could go on.

And people wonder why they're left **** out with crap workmanship

I wonder too.

So you're happy to stand about all day losing money because someone didn't hold up their end? Or do you just hope you have enough work on the back burner to keep rainy days at bay?

Contracts most certainly do work both ways.

 

[noseall]

Contracts most certainly do work both ways.

I'm sure they do. And, I'm sure you'd find domestic building a boon should you wish to try it. And us private/domestic builders will just go on muddling through our tit for tat arrangements without need for the debilitating constrains of contractual agreements, thanks all the same.

 

[Millwright]

What should you do with a bad builder? What do you mean bad builder? Shouldn't the term simply just be 'builder'?

Kill them, that's the only thing that can be done with these sharks.

 

[noseall]

What should you do with a bad builder? What do you mean bad builder? Shouldn't the term simply just be 'builder'?

Kill them, that's the only thing that can be done with these sharks.