What's the best liquid epoxy available at a reasonable price?

Joined
25 Jan 2009
Messages
236
Reaction score
2
Location
Worcestershire
Country
United Kingdom
Hello there, I am after about 500ml of self levelling liquid epoxy to fill some voids uncovered in some plywood after using a plunge router.

Can someone please recommend a specific brand/product that will harden well and evenly and can be sanded well and isn't stupidly expensive?

If it isn't available in small quantities but is still fairly good value, I will order more.

Thanks.
 
West System is the best epoxy, bar none (used in the boat building and high end cabinetmaking trades). It isn't cheap, though, but if what you want is cheap and good, well, you'll get one out of two at a time.

Just why do you need an epoxy in particular? For voids in plywood which is being painted or even stained I'd normally just use a 2-pack wood filler. I find that (being specific) Timbafill, as used by a lot of the trade, is pretty good stuff, and available in different colours (although I wouldn't trust any of them for a match). They also do a styrene-free version and you can buy the hardener component separately (useful as you always seem to use too much hardener when mixing-up small amounts)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I guess you won't know unless I show you.

There are voids, gaps and uneven spots that would be great for filling with something that dries hard and level and will get into all the gaps. I also want to use tape to reproduce the bits that have come away when the plunge router went near the edge by infilling those gaps.

M2fph56.jpg
sXgaBK2.jpg
sVicZb9.jpg
 
If you need a liquid it will have to be an epoxy system - which points to West, again. However if you slightly overfill the holes with a 2-pack wood filler it is possible to re-route the surface to get a flush surface. I have needed to do just that from time to time
 
Thanks for your reply. You may be able to see that I have already used a two part filler on this (the yellow areas). I swear by the Ronseal deep fill and have loads of it, but I just don't feel it's going to completely do the job in this instance.
 
Partly from memory you need something like the basic #105 resin / #205 hardener pack (they did some smaller "starter" packs which used to be £25 or so a few years back) but in your case I think you may well need the colloidal silica filler #406 as well, at between between about 40:1 and 10:1 mixed resin:filler ratio (the filler was about £8?). Using a filler gives improved load capacity and screw pull-out resistance as well as making a structural strength repair with good smoothness. You also use that filler when laminating making fillets and fairing-in (i.e where smooth sanded contoured surfaces are required). West also make low density and micro fibre fillers. In addition to the resin, hardener and filler you'll need measuring cups and disposable mixing sticks (these don't need to be West, where you are just oaying for their name on the cup - your local car paint supplier should be able to supply these really cheaply). One plus point of West is that once cured it can be routed, but you do seem to get a better surface with the filler

Please bear in mind that the last time I bought West stuff was pre-Covid, so prices could well be up 20 to 30% on the figures I quoted

As an aside, may I comment about routing technique? If you want a smoother bottom to your cuts tape a 1mm packer onto the top of your turret and make a first cut by plunging down slowly and then hogging away most of the material. Withdraw the router, unplunge, remove the 1mm packer and replunge to full depth, keeping the router moving as you replunge. Don't use excessive force making your plunge cuts. Hogging the waste then making a finishing cut means you can avoid those annoying cutter circles more easily
 
Thank you very much for your reply. I heard something about syringes you can use to get the correct mixture and it makes using the stuff easier?

My router technique is usually fine, I had problems with the size of the workpieces being used, clamping up securely and the templates being a bit floppy. I do really appreciate your tips though and am sure others will benefit too.
 
Thank you very much for your reply. I heard something about syringes you can use to get the correct mixture and it makes using the stuff easier?
TBH I've never used epoxy in such small quantities! In any case the exact proportion of the mix isn't so critical, especially if you opt for the #206 slow cure hardener (which may be a good idea if you are doing a lot of small stuff). The basic resin without fillers is actually fairly runny and is often dispensed using pumps on top of the cans but I'd still be surprised if you could apply it through most syringes*. The following video illustrates the viscosity of the epoxy without filler @ 0:34 and with @ 0:42 onwards (gap filling @ 1:00 - this is the consistency you need for sanding out)


...I had problems with the size of the workpieces being used, clamping up securely and the templates being a bit floppy.
You'd be amazed at the difference a hot melt gun can make to stopping workpiece movement. When I was workshop based we always had a cheapo hot melt gun beside the overhead pin routers to deal with issues such as this. The old school way to stop movement on router templates in production environments was to cover the template holding surface with sandpaper (P60 or P80) then drive a few screws through so they just peeked above the surface and lastly to file the tips to chisel shapes (aligned to the grain). I think that for small runs clamping is best done with a combination of toggle cramps and stop blocks, but for one-offs hot melt glue really is the bees knees. I was taught that by a Wadkin trainer back in the day but TBH I don't think I've ever seen it on a DIY or routing web site.

* - A friend of mine on another forum has told me that you can use it with syringes, just not the types with needles, and that in fact for drilled out hole repairs on boats it's a great way to fill small round holes without wasting epoxy. He referred me to another more general West System video:


There are 8 videos in the set which cover most of the things yoiu'd ever need to know about using West or any other epoxy system
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you once again. I couldn't see a video though.

I've read about hot melt glue and had I not needed to reposition the templates six times on each shelf, I may have done that. My concern would be damaging the surface of either the template or shelf when trying to detach the bond. Also, hot glue cools very quickly when it makes contact with two wooden surfaces, so how do you get it flush all the way around?
 
Thank you once again. I couldn't see a video though.
Sorry about that.:oops: No idea what happened to the video. I've edited it back in to the post :whistle:

I've read about hot melt glue and had I not needed to reposition the templates six times on each shelf, I may have done that.
Firstly as you are doing multiple shelves I'd have made up a single template to do all the holes and the outside edge. This might well have meant making up an initial hole templete to make the production template. Secondly I'd probably have cut my shelf blanks a couple of millimetres larger all round than the finished item and trimmed to the outside in a couple of passes after I'd done the six recesses. That way your shelves are all consistent (not always achieveable if you are moving a template six times), it means you don't have to be super accurate with the shelf blanks so long as they are 2mm bigger that the jig and cut dead square, Routing it out in one shot and doing the rounder corner will be a darned sight easier. I would also whizz of the plastic sub-base and make-up my own larger sub base something like this:

Oversize Router Sub Bases.png


They can be made up using 4 or 5mm acrylic, or polycarbonate, or even thin plywood or MDF (although they aren't as good because they are opaque). There's an article about how to do it here. Fundamentally, it's a rectangle of material with a big enough hole drilled in the middle for the cutter to go through, some countersunk holes for fixing screws in the same places as the existing sub-base and is just screwed onto the base of the router in place of the (normally) black sub-base. You can often get offcuts of 4 to 6mm clear acrylic or polycarbonate from a local signmaking firm (I know one place where they will let me go skip diving - shop signs are often appropriate thickness acrylic or polycarbonate) but they will sometimes even sell you (or if you are lucky give you) an appropriate sized offcut. Another source is eBay where you can get an appropriate size piece of 4 or 5mm acrylic for a few quid. An enlarged sub-base can bridge the holes and far reduces the tendency to over rout (rout too deeply) or tip the router that can happen when you are trying to supported a router from one edge.

... hot glue cools very quickly when it makes contact with two wooden surfaces, so how do you get it flush all the way around?
Hot glue does set fast, but you only need a couple or maybe three very small of blobs of it, not a large amount, and that being the case if you have a template with a couple of locators on it it should be possible to get your glue blobbed and the template on before it sets off. This sort of template would work for what I am talking about:

Cup Shelf Jig Top.jpg
Cup Shelf Jig Bottom.jpg

Above: The jig used to produce the display shelf. The pink represents some form of sheet material, the brown is 2 x 1in (44 x 22mm) PAR softwood. The jig is made 44mm oversize in both ways to accommodate the 2 x 1 locating blocks which are used to locate the jig on the blank. This is assuming that the blanks are 25mm - the main thing is that the locating blocks are thinner than the material, so anything you have will do, Templates can also be assembled with hot melt glue. In a real world situation I'd possibly make up a jig with two holes in it then use that to make the six hole jig - this makes for a much more consistent end result

Below: The blank is cut slightly oversize and the template fixed on top. Material is shown in green. In reality I'd want to trim that corner back a bit with a jigsaw before routing to reduce the amount of work the router needs to do - because work = heat
Cup Shelf Jig In Use.jpg


Cup Shelf Item.jpg

Above: What the completed item should look like. I know this isn't exactly the same as yours, but I was setting out to demonstrate the principle only

When you are finished routing the jig and material can be broken apart and cleaned-up with a sharp chisel

One of the things I did in the past was to run a production kitchen shop (for someone else) where we often had to make custom shelves and timber corbels. Our wood machinist wasn't the greatest, so I used to set-up and run all the stuff like this, especially as every set of corbels we seemed to make was unique
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Partly from memory you need something like the basic #105 resin / #205 hardener pack (they did some smaller "starter" packs which used to be £25 or so a few years back) but in your case I think you may well need the colloidal silica filler #406 as well, at between between about 40:1 and 10:1 mixed resin:filler ratio (the filler was about £8?). Using a filler gives improved load capacity and screw pull-out resistance as well as making a structural strength repair with good smoothness. You also use that filler when laminating making fillets and fairing-in (i.e where smooth sanded contoured surfaces are required). West also make low density and micro fibre fillers. In addition to the resin, hardener and filler you'll need measuring cups and disposable mixing sticks (these don't need to be West, where you are just oaying for their name on the cup - your local car paint supplier should be able to supply these really cheaply). One plus point of West is that once cured it can be routed, but you do seem to get a better surface with the filler

Please bear in mind that the last time I bought West stuff was pre-Covid, so prices could well be up 20 to 30% on the figures I quoted

As an aside, may I comment about routing technique? If you want a smoother bottom to your cuts tape a 1mm packer onto the top of your turret and make a first cut by plunging down slowly and then hogging away most of the material. Withdraw the router, unplunge, remove the 1mm packer and replunge to full depth, keeping the router moving as you replunge. Don't use excessive force making your plunge cuts. Hogging the waste then making a finishing cut means you can avoid those annoying cutter circles more easily

Thank you.

So...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epoxy-Resi...766207&sprefix=west+system+#406,aps,68&sr=8-8

and

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colloidal-...6207&sprefix=west+system+#406,aps,68&sr=8-544

How about that?
 
I have never used syringes with West Epoxy, so sorry, can't help you there. The stiffness of the epoxy filler when I've used it makes it very suitable for application with a thin, very flexible stopping knife (with the sharp corners rounded off), so that's what I've used. A cheaper alternative is those white flexible plastic stopping knives sold by decorator centres (although they, too, need the sharp edges rounding off)
 
Back
Top