Wind Turbines

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Hysteresis

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I am not a supporter of Wind Turbines for a whole load of reasons but my query is :-

On many days in which generation from wind turbines could provide energy, as the wind conditions are favourable, which effectively is free from Fuel costs, I observe hundreds of these monstrosities idle and not generating any power what so ever.
Clearly power requirement vary through the day and seasons and as such power generation is hugely variable and generation as a function of demand is a requirement to satisfy demand achieved by reducing or switching off generation facilities.
What I find so odd is that I would have thought the Base Load demand should be provided as much as possible by utilising fuel free Wind Turbines when weather conditions are suitable and the Load swings to satisfy demand should be accommodated by switching off or reducing power output from conventional Fossil fuel generation facilities.
The answer may be that generation station efficiency is reduced on smaller loads but wind turbines are fuel free so what ever the efficiency of the reduced output stations is, free power is still superior.
Therefore I consider if the wind conditions are satisfactory, every Wind Turbine in the country should be operating as part of the base load requirements with load swing being accommodated by fossil fuelled Plant.
 
I've heard/read somewhere that he modern ones have centrifugal braking systems installed, to prevent over run of the blades, when wind speeds reach a certain speed.
 
Hysteresis said:
I observe hundreds of these monstrosities idle and not generating any power what so ever.
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Hundreds, you say? That's very odd. I can imagine a few might be shut down for maintenance. I understand the business model is that they will sell into any price that exceeds their variable costs, which must be very low.

Where is the farm you are looking at?

This minute, they are producing about 4GW, which is about half capacity. AFAIK it's not a windy evening. This is normal. Most days it's windy in some places and not in others.

The combined Gas stations are also at about half capacity, and nuclear is full power, as are the French and Dutch interconnects, presumably at low prices as demand is low.
 
mitch66 said:
WTF? Really?
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Yep WTF in this case is Wind Too Fast

They have to be shut down and the rotors locked before they are going too fast to be safely stopped by applying the brakes. There have been some ( too many ) instances of brakes failing to stop the rotor before the brake pads ( or whatever ) have been worn away. The rotor then over speeds and major dmage occurs, if a blade is thrown off during overspeed then the unbalanced rotor causes the tower to topple over.
 
Most replies refer to turbine shut down due to excess wind, but I did make it clear my observations have been made during periods when condition are within the operating window.
Thanks JohnD for your very helpful reply. Never thought of that. The Business model being the purchase costs of the energy. I tend to think in the Old School of the CEGB where a central generator controls the supply, clearly we are now in the open market scenario. I think you have the answer there John, so thanks so much.
The wind farm to which I refer is an off shore Farm in the TEES Mouth and also I have the misfortune to have 25-3MW turbines within 5 miles of my home, many of which are shut down in the wind operating window. Buying energy on the open market Must be the answer. Thanks again JohnD.
 
Hysteresis said:
I am not a supporter of Wind Turbines for a whole load of reasons but my query is :-

On many days in which generation from wind turbines could provide energy, as the wind conditions are favourable, which effectively is free from Fuel costs, I observe hundreds of these monstrosities idle and not generating any power what so ever.
Clearly power requirement vary through the day and seasons and as such power generation is hugely variable and generation as a function of demand is a requirement to satisfy demand achieved by reducing or switching off generation facilities.
What I find so odd is that I would have thought the Base Load demand should be provided as much as possible by utilising fuel free Wind Turbines when weather conditions are suitable and the Load swings to satisfy demand should be accommodated by switching off or reducing power output from conventional Fossil fuel generation facilities.
The answer may be that generation station efficiency is reduced on smaller loads but wind turbines are fuel free so what ever the efficiency of the reduced output stations is, free power is still superior.
Therefore I consider if the wind conditions are satisfactory, every Wind Turbine in the country should be operating as part of the base load requirements with load swing being accommodated by fossil fuelled Plant.
Click to expand...

Coal/nuclear is best for baseload supply, as they are less suited to variable loads (coal technically, nuclear economically), so gas and renewables are better suited to variable loads, as they can be varied to match supply. This is why you sometimes see wind turbines idle.

In reality, they make more complex considerations between using the different sources, but your issue of wind being a fuel free source will no doubt be a factor.

In addition, there are other issues that cause a wind turbine to stop (such as preventing flicker), (and fossil fuel/nuclear plants also have their reasons for stopping such as maintenance). Bird kills are a non-issue usually in the UK, as modern turbines must have bird surveys before and after installation.

Also, the issue of high winds is rarely an issue. In fact, I have never seen it being an issue for the turbine I see locally.

The factory in Hull is quite spectacular, as the towers are stored vertically before being shipped to the offshore wind farms
 
bernardgreen said:
Yep WTF in this case is Wind Too Fast

They have to be shut down and the rotors locked before they are going too fast to be safely stopped by applying the brakes. There have been some ( too many ) instances of brakes failing to stop the rotor before the brake pads ( or whatever ) have been worn away. The rotor then over speeds and major dmage occurs, if a blade is thrown off during overspeed then the unbalanced rotor causes the tower to topple over.
Click to expand...

Not fit for purpose comes to mind. All that free energy but we can only have a bit of it cos the turbines are too tiny. No wonder there are skeptics.
PS tanks for a neutral, edjumacating response.
 
4GW is worth having, and is what wind typically supplies to the grid.

It's more than all our hydro and all our pumped storage and all our biomass and all our coal put together.

But less than our Solar makes in summer.

Our nukes can produce a max of 8-9 GW

You talk like wind and solar are tiny irrelevancies. They're not.
 
mitch66 said:
WTF? Really?
Click to expand...

Yupp seriously. They can't run when the winds too powerful, and they get declutched to stop them flying off, and from burning theselves out. But gues what, they still get paid for non production - it's in their contracts.
 
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