Wind Turbines
- Thread starter Hysteresis
- Start date
In today's news:
https://www.ft.com/content/5b08507d-ae4b-47d1-afb7-ae851f98d6d8
"UK business secretary Grant Shapps has signalled that the government will reverse its ban on onshore wind farms in an attempt to head off a growing mutiny among Tory MPs, including former prime ministers Boris Johnson and Liz Truss.
Simon Clarke, the former cabinet minister heading the rebellion, claims more than 30 Conservative MPs now support his amendment to the levelling-up bill, which would make it easier for developers to build land-based wind turbines.
However, Rishi Sunak, the prime minister, has been warned that if he drops the current de facto ban, he will face a fresh rebellion from opponents within the party. Under the current rules, an onshore wind farm can be blocked if there is only a single local protester opposed to the scheme.
Proponents of onshore wind power point out it is one of the cheapest forms of renewable energy and is needed if the UK is to meet its target of net zero emissions by 2050. It would also give Britain greater energy security at a time when gas prices have soared because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine."
As usual, the Conservative Government is battling with the Conservative Party.
https://www.ft.com/content/5b08507d-ae4b-47d1-afb7-ae851f98d6d8
"UK business secretary Grant Shapps has signalled that the government will reverse its ban on onshore wind farms in an attempt to head off a growing mutiny among Tory MPs, including former prime ministers Boris Johnson and Liz Truss.
Simon Clarke, the former cabinet minister heading the rebellion, claims more than 30 Conservative MPs now support his amendment to the levelling-up bill, which would make it easier for developers to build land-based wind turbines.
However, Rishi Sunak, the prime minister, has been warned that if he drops the current de facto ban, he will face a fresh rebellion from opponents within the party. Under the current rules, an onshore wind farm can be blocked if there is only a single local protester opposed to the scheme.
Proponents of onshore wind power point out it is one of the cheapest forms of renewable energy and is needed if the UK is to meet its target of net zero emissions by 2050. It would also give Britain greater energy security at a time when gas prices have soared because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine."
As usual, the Conservative Government is battling with the Conservative Party.
There have been claims now that off shore is cheaper. or costs the same. Probably by people who want to sell them or maybe not. Scale may figure. One big one costs more but balanced by the output it can produce. Most people who spout about it often have an angle even at the political end.
Two aspects do not get mentioned. Storage and distribution. The grid is set up for distribution via previous power stations some of which are gone. Plenty of underground wiring. Cost wise I'd guess any changes wont be done that way now. Storage - average wind speed doesn't mean much in this respect. Range is needed. Perhaps a solution is a capacity that will always cope with that.
There are other complications as well. Heat pumps need more electricity than gas boilers. Then comes electric transport and hydrogen. Are we ever going to get more manufacture? This plant probably powered the west midlands conurbation.
Hams Hall power stations - Wikipedia
Seems Mrs T helped green some of the UK via industry leaving. Globalisation, While we may well get CO2 down what about that generated by imports.LOL When Leyland had a whoopsy our lights used to dim and the resultant very hv spike produced by transformers blew bulbs and even blew a dimmer off the wall once. ~30 years ago improved over time. Always seemed to be the night shift. These high voltages are needed to transport power over distances.
Storage and distribution is always being discussed. I could waste time quoting all the times they've come up on this thread but I got bored. The need to upgrade the grid to manage more distributed power generation is also a hot topic in some circles.
"By sharing power, countries save costs because they have to build less generation capacity to meet peak demand. A European Union report published in April valued the benefits of cross-border electricity trade at €34bn a year.
This isn’t something that happened by accident: the EU set a target for each member to install enough cables to export at least 15 per cent of its electricity by 2030.
Interconnectors also enable the growth of renewables like wind and solar by filling gaps in energy supplies caused by fluctuations in the weather. If countries stop trading electricity, the result would be disastrous for governments and households."
Usual source.
In unrelated news:
https://www.ft.com/content/a9a34ea3-649f-4a47-a4c8-ee269e07eccc
"The UK government is to pay Chinese state-owned power group CGN over £100mn to exit Britain’s £20bn Sizewell C nuclear energy project in a bid to reduce Beijing’s involvement in the country’s infrastructure."
https://www.ft.com/content/a9a34ea3-649f-4a47-a4c8-ee269e07eccc
"The UK government is to pay Chinese state-owned power group CGN over £100mn to exit Britain’s £20bn Sizewell C nuclear energy project in a bid to reduce Beijing’s involvement in the country’s infrastructure."
For new schemes the income is determined by the fixed price contract for difference contracts with the government, if the cost isn't lower than the CFD strike price the implication is the wind turbine operators are just losing money giving piles of money to the government for fun when the market price is higher and won't even cover their costs if the market price is lower.
CFD used to subsidise wind schemes but they've been paying money back for a while now and will do for the forseeable unless prices drop.
David
Not sure what that means. The funding scheme has been changed. As things were private finance took the risk etc and paid the lot for a fixed price "product" when it started producing. This has been changed.
Not sure how but effectively consumers pay some amount?????
New finance model to cut cost of new nuclear power stations
Consumers will save more than £30 billion on each new large-scale nuclear station.
Pages on potential nuke stations did show who was paying for them. That might state some % edf and some % a Chinese company.
An explanation of RAB financing
How do you solve a problem like Wylfa Newydd? Exploring the regulated asset base nuclear financing model
After Hitachi suspended plans to build Wylfa Newydd nuclear power plant, the UK government is exploring the idea of a regulated asset base funding model
www.nsenergybusiness.com
An open ended business plan in terms of paying back the costs - what ever they are. That to keep the lenders happy.
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What is a Contract for Difference and why do we need it?
CFD is a long-term contract between a generator and the Low Carbon Contracts Company to incentivise investment in UK low-carbon electricity generation.
Currently gas generated electricity costs have messed things up a bit. Talk of taxing wind suppliers to reduce their profits due to the fixed price we finish up paying. Just talk, haven't heard anything about an actual action.
That's for older wind systems that aren't covered by CfD.
The 100 million was a settlement to agree to buy out their share in the project. China did have legally binding contracts so we couldn't just end them without mutual agreement. In this case mutual agreement and £100 million.
The 100 million was a settlement to agree to buy out their share in the project. China did have legally binding contracts so we couldn't just end them without mutual agreement. In this case mutual agreement and £100 million.
All I've got to contribute to this thread is I read somewhere that some modern wind turbines generate enough power with one revolution to keep an average house going (electricity wise) for approx. two days, which I thought was pretty impressive if true.
The fact that that contract has finished means that there is a funding hole left. How is that going to be filled? Seems it has as the station has been given the go ahead. The side benefits mean they will continue for people working in the area and suppliers etc.
There appears to be several types of contracts.
I'll need to think about variations in strike price.
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D
Deleted member 174758
@diy_fun_uk I have the feeling that you have never been up close to one of these large wind turbines. Up on Scout Moor there are 26 wind turbines which are 60 metres tall to the hub with an 80 metre diamete blade sweep (so 100 metres to the tip at the top of the circle). They are easily visible from parts of south Manchester 25 miles away in clear weather