Zion and the Art of Armageddon

Similar to the borders rejected by Palestinians in 1937, 1947 and twice by Yasser Arafat prior to the Oslo Accords.
You might also want to check what the arabs signed up for in the Oslo Accords, oh bright one.
You have no clue do you...

But then you've decided to ignore the atrocities that the Israeli state has carried out for decades...

A state founded by designated terrorists...

But what's the point in showing the facts to someone who doesn't understand that the solution has to be a decent compromise...

Someone who is happy for the killing to continue indefinitely because of racial bias/hatred !
 
A state founded by designated terrorists...

Founded by UN resolution 181, which offered Palestinians the same opportunity but was roundly rejected because they refused to recognise the right of Israel to exist, even though Israel signed up to acknowledge Palestines right to exist.

But what's the point in showing the facts to someone who doesn't understand that the solution has to be a decent compromise...

Someone who is happy for the killing to continue indefinitely because of racial bias/hatred !

I'd like to see the killing end tomorrow, Hamas won't allow it, as they've demonstrated today.
 
The IDF have dropped roughly 16 million warning leaflets, made hundreds of thousands of mobile phone calls, hundreds of thousands of sms messages and when intending to destroy a building 'tap on the roof' by sending a small rocket prior to the destructive one.

For all that, the IDF have achieved a lower civilian death rate than the Iraq war, the Kosovo war and the Syrian civil war.

Those leaflets are often contradictory and misleading, according to this report by the BBC - yet another violation of their International obligations towards the civilian population in Gaza. What's the point of putting further information online, when Israel blocks internet communication?

"It is estimated that Israel has dropped more than 70,000 tons of explosives on the Gaza Strip in addition to its bulldozing operations, resulting in the destruction of all buildings at a distance of up to one kilometer in the east and north of the Strip in order to create a so-called buffer zone," according to the Geneva-based human rights monitor organization...more bombs than were dropped during WWII.

At least 370,000 housing units in Gaza have been damaged, including 79,000 destroyed completely, the report said, along with commercial buildings. After previous Israel-Hamas conflicts, housing was rebuilt at a rate of 992 units a year, it said...reconstruction is estimated to take around 20 years.

Over an area smaller than the Isle of Wight.

Meanwhile...

...the blame game goes on; each side picking holes in the other, while Blinken flies around the Middle East in attempts to square the circle with more blue sky thinking out of the box, running each proposal up the flagpole and racking up more frequent flyer miles in the process of going round in the same circle. He's such a square square. Poor chap resembles an oozlum bird more than a latter-day Kissinger. An errand boy sent by grocery clerks to pick up the bill which runs into the billions of dollars. "The horror, the horror!" exclaims Uncle Joe, every time someone shows him the running costs of this forever war, waged by lunatics who not only want to run the asylum but bulldoze the old buildings into the dust and build a new Jerusalem atop the stinking corpses lieing 'neath the rubble.

Give the Devil his due. He knows how to keep a war going.
 
"It is estimated that Israel has dropped more than 70,000 tons of explosives on the Gaza Strip in addition to its bulldozing operations, resulting in the destruction of all buildings at a distance of up to one kilometer in the east and north of the Strip in order to create a so-called buffer zone," according to the Geneva-based human rights monitor organization...more bombs than were dropped during WWII.

Roughly 3.5 MILLION tons of bombs were dropped during WW2 and a damned sight less than 70,000 tons have been dropped on Gaza.

Stop posting nonsense.
 
Those leaflets are often contradictory and misleading, according to this report by the BBC - yet another violation of their International obligations towards the civilian population in Gaza. What's the point of putting further information online, when Israel blocks internet communication?

Name me one single military in the entire world that goes to those extraordinary lengths attempting to minimise civilian casualties.

The at times inaccuracy of the information is a violation of their international obligations.

Extraordinary.
 
The UN has produced a war crimes report aimed at both HAMAS and the Israeli state. Theirs is far larger and more detailed.

I'm not sure if this report includes occupied territory rules which would also include the west bank. It is extremely clear that the Israeli state is in breach of these. Problem - the security council has never decided to do anything about it as the number of problems in this area increase. This aspect doesn't get a mention. Gaza does but only in one respect.

Meanwhile. An IDF bulldozer attack - go into a west bank camp and rip up the streets. They include sewers and electricity supplies at times. The word camps crops up a lot even in Gaza.

Interview, a young kid. Shot in the throat and told die you f er. Close range. Similar but adult. A crowd around who cheered. There was no need to shoot the bloke.

The real problem is the nature of the beasts involved and it always has been. The PLO deal indicates a shift in one of the beasts but what did it achieve. Nothing of much use due to the other beast that generally has always had fixed views and aims and done what ever they like.
 
Name me one single military in the entire world that goes to those extraordinary lengths attempting to minimise civilian casualties.

The at times inaccuracy of the information is a violation of their international obligations.

Extraordinary.
The Paras were told to avoid "any unecessary damage" during the battle for Arnhem - watch the movie. Sean Connery makes a mean Para. The British Army goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Accidents happen in war but Israel has deliberately targeted civilians in this conflict.
 
The British Army goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Accidents happen in war but Israel has deliberately targeted civilians in this conflict.

And yet both those conflicts produced higher civilian death rates than Gaza, although to be fair Sean Connery wasn't involved in those skirmishes.
 
And yet both those conflicts produced higher civilian death rates than Gaza, although to be fair Sean Connery wasn't involved in those skirmishes.
It isn't about the rate of civilian deaths, more so the deliberate targeting of them by the IDF in Gaza.

International humanitarian law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is also forbidden, whether in the case of prisoners of war or of any other individuals.

British Law is clear: In the imposition of collective punishment the British Amy follows the customary laws and usages of war, and in particular the so-called Hague Rules. No collective penalty may be inflicted on the population in occupied territory on account of acts of individuals for which it cannot be regarded as collectively responsible, although in certain circumstances action against a locality or a community may be admissible specifically as reprisals.
 
Roughly 3.5 MILLION tons of bombs were dropped during WW2
Recent info, pretty sure I have the number right. The load the UK got resulted in ~40,000 civilian deaths. The anti aircraft guns were more for moral than effectiveness..

Efficiency improves but as far as civilians are concerned other factors figure as well. An example you wont like, Ukraine
As of 22 February 2024 (the latest data available), 30,457 civilians were killed and wounded, including 10,582 civilians killed in the conflict, including 587 children.

Different type of war but Israel believes in punishment and also absolute minimal troop losses. Then other factors creep in such as aid, water and medical treatment. The electrical side of things is a military target. Not helped if too many buildings are destroyed - shorts on the grid. Some punishment did figure in the Iraq war.

Syria a bit different. Went wrong so the bombs went in. Troops - use someone else's.
 
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Recent info, pretty sure I have the number right. The load the UK got resulted in ~40,000 civilian deaths. The anti aircraft guns were more for moral than effectiveness..

Efficiency improves but as far as civilians are concerned other factors figure as well. An example you wont like, Ukraine
As of 22 February 2024 (the latest data available), 30,457 civilians were killed and wounded, including 10,582 civilians killed in the conflict, including 587 children.

Different type of war but Israel believes in punishment and also absolute minimal troop losses. Then other factors creep in such as aid, water and medical treatment. The electrical side of things is a military target. Not helped if too many buildings are destroyed - shorts on the grid. Some punishment did figure in this war.

Syria a bit different. Went wrong so the bombs went in. Troops - use someone else's.

I was referring to Odds little gem where he stated 70,000 tons of explosive had been dropped on Gaza and that was more than had been dropped in the whole of WW2.
Reality is around 20 tons dropped on Gaza, 3.5 million tons in WW2.

edit. 20,000 tons
 
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I was referring to Odds little gem
There are other factors but this one seems to have declined more recently
Earlier this month, CNN reported that nearly half of the Israeli munitions used on Gaza have been “dumb bombs”, citing research by the United States Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

The use of big bombs has even been mentioned by the US - don't as they have been. Reasons for their use cost and make up for accuracy by using a bigger bang..

Who's tonnes. Makes no real difference. A metric one is similar to Imperial. So lets just say 1,000kg. It doesn't take many of the bigger bombs to get to 1tonne. In fact 1 will do. Blast damage and also pressure waves are far more dangerous.

So there has been a shift to the lighter and precision types. Gazans start reporting double hits. More sensible but their targets are at times rather dubious. Depends on who is regarded as HAMAS etc. Israel's view is rather liberal and some are not legitimate targets. IDF in controlled area - if it moves kill it. Also reports of killing when there is no need.
 
IDF in controlled area - if it moves kill it.

With 626 IDF soldiers killed so far I'd say that sounds like a sensible approach. Also bear in mind Hamas don't wear a uniform except for publicity photos and they entrench themselves among civilians.
 
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