4 cables feeding 1 socket

[AaronHarvey]

This is the best I can explain the current wiring layout without having it tested. Obviously I think its clear that it likely needs to all be ripped out and re-wired if to be done again correctly or any changes to be made.

There's one double socket on the left hand side. This appears to be on a ring with 1 spur going straight up for the extractor fan. The other two cables fed down behind the washing machine.
Behind the washing machine there is one single socket and the wires have been chased horizontally to the right behind the oven.
In the centre of the kitchen above the hob I recently found behind the tiles and a patch of mdf, theres a buried JB in the wall. Appears to be the remnants of an original 70's cooker switch. No spurs, just two cable connected together. Still live. Assuming this feeds down to then back up to the 'new' cooker switch.
To the right of that the 'new' cooker switch. Now feeds the oven and hob via a socket in the adjacent cupboard.
On the far right the socket in question. 2 cables feeding above and two below.
Then moving to the right where is now the fridge, previously the oven at mid height is an fcu and another single socket. Not sure if this is on 6mm or 2.5mm without pulling everything out which I won't be doing quite yet.

And that's it. This is why I'm unsure as to what two things that socket would be spuring to.

Excuse the crude diagram.
*only 1 cable above and below the hidden JB

 

[AaronHarvey]

In terms of regs the kitchen was fitted in 2001. No documentation for the wiring so can assume it was a diy job shortly before hand.

 

[sparkwright]

Based on your diagram, it seems likely this socket has been used to supply all the newer kitchen sockets, and I would guess this was an attempt to extend the ring.

Only, as mentioned earlier, it has been connected wrongly, and has turned the circuit into a figure of 8.

To try to salvage the wiring you should
a) confirm this is 2.5mm2 wiring fed by a 30 or 32 amp circuit (very likely).

b) if so, turn the power off.

c) disconnect the wires at the socket.

d) with a multimeter, check for continuity between the lives of the OLDER WIRES ONLY. Then check for continuity between the neutrals of the OLDER WIRES ONLY. Then the earths of the OLDER WIRES ONLY.

e) repeat this process with the NEWER WIRES ONLY.

f) if you have continuity on all the wires as described in d and e, the wiring is in the form of a ring, and the socket can be connected up, only correctly this time.

g) connect an older cable to a newer cable with connectors.

h) connect the remaining older cable and a remaining newer cable to the socket terminals.

i) with this arrangement, you can spur off the connectors, or the socket itself, for your new power point, but you may find an easier place to get the feed from - there may be newer cables floating around under the base units.

Out of interest, what's in that old covered up box in the wall?

 

[AaronHarvey]

Ok brilliant, thanks for clearing that up.

Out of interest, what's in that old covered up box in the wall?

Mentioned this on a separate thread, and someone got back and suggested it would have been an old 70's cooker switch as below. Although there is a 3rd earth connected up here?? Was surprised to find that this was just covered with mdf and tiled back over.

 

[sparkwright]

No, I'm not talking about that one.

I'm talking about the picture you sent at the beginning of THIS POST.

You have taken a picture of ypur double socket (with 4 wires) and to the right of the socket there looks to be an old single box that's been filled over.

I wondered what was inside that.

 

[AaronHarvey]

Oh sorry, I haven't knocked any of that out so I wouldn't know. I assumed nothing as it had been filled in.

 

[sparkwright]

May be worth a look.

 

[endecotp]

Some people have suggested a ring spured off the ring. Like a figure of 8?

Totally forbidden by the regs.

So just as a hypothetical devil’s-advocate question....

Say I have a compliant ring circuit:

Now say I join it together across the middle to form a figure-of-eight.

As far as I can see, that can only reduce the resistance between any pair of points in the circuit. So it must have at least as good EFLI, voltage-drop, etc. So it must also be compliant.

What am I missing?

 

[BS3036]

What am I missing?

Well, I had been thinking exactly the same. The only obvious downside of a figure of eight is that it destroys the standard procedure for circuit testing. One would have to invent ones own procedure, and you can't really ask that of a passing electrician.

 

[EFLImpudence]

You are not missing anything but anyone else will not at first realise.

People just don't like it because it is confusing and makes testing more complicated.

 

[SUNRAY]

You are not missing anything but anyone else will not at first realise.

People just don't like it because it is confusing and makes testing more complicated.

And adding potentially hazzardous fault situation which would not be found by standard testing procedures.

 

[AaronHarvey]

To anyone that may have been curious. Sparkwright was right.

I have tested both old and new cables for continuity and it is a ring off a ring. A figure of 8.

I'll re-connect properly as above. Thanks for all the help.

 

[AaronHarvey]

No, I'm not talking about that one.

I'm talking about the picture you sent at the beginning of THIS POST.

You have taken a picture of ypur double socket (with 4 wires) and to the right of the socket there looks to be an old single box that's been filled over.

I wondered what was inside that.

Nothing inside the single box. Just filled with plaster.
One knockout removed on the left hand side so may have been another outlet next to it before the double was put in.