Arab captives tortured in Israeli hospitals

ajohn said:
What has that achieved for them? Cheaper housing in the west bank maybe?
Continuous periodic problems from day 1 - yes.
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Even when I was there in 2013 the IDF where finding tunnels going towards Kubbuttz's.
Israel will always claim land if they are being attacked from it.
 
Bod ... said:
Even when I was there in 2013 the IDF where finding tunnels going towards Kubbuttz's.
Israel will always claim land if they are being attacked from it.
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I can shorten that for you.

"Israel always claims land."
 
JohnD said:
Because it was invaded by a powerful neighbour?

You're on shaky ground there.
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I don't blame Hamas defending themselves.

I dont defend them using women and children as human shields and hiding in hospitals .
 
IT Minion said:
There's no realistic prospect at the moment. From memory the Israeli people generally don't support an independent Palestine and without that there will always be tension. Israel will never give back enough to placate the Palestinians, let alone the religious extremists.

My expectation is this phase of the war ends with Israel annexing more of Gaza, as well as the chunks they're biting out of the west bank. Then they'll start with settlements in Gaza and it'll kick off and more land will be taken.

Eventually there simply won't be anywhere left for the Palestinians. Text book ethnic cleansing.
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'Give back' implies the land belonged to the Palestinians in the first place. There has never been an independent State of Palestine. There could have been, UN resolution 181 gave them the opportunity to do so back in 1947, instead, the day after Israel declared statehood in 1948 (because they did accept UN resolution 181) five arab countries invaded Israel and started a war that lasted 9 months.
There was an opportunity after the 67 war, that was met with 'no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel'.
Two further rejections by Yasser Arafat. The sticking point was always about accepting the right of Israel to exist.
Now, after God knows how many wars and God knows how many intifadas, the arabs are saying they want a two state solution, something they've been openly rejecting for the last 75 years.
Even between the wars the PLO have seized every opportunity to strike out at Israel, whether by hijacking a plane full of passengers and segregating the 100 who were Jewish ready for execution (Entebbe) or by murdering every single one of their Olympic team (Munich).
Unless Hamas are destroyed there will be no two state solution because Hamas refuse to work with the PA, and make no mistake, whatever happens after this current conflict, Hamas will receive sufficient funding from other players to be able to go back to firing hundreds of rockets a day into Israel, from school playgrounds and hospitals naturally so that any retaliation by Israel will be seen as an attack on civilians.

I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made, of course they have. But to minimise civilian casualties the idf fire a small rocket onto a roof to warn of a larger rocket on it's way, they have made tens of thousands of phone calls and tens to thousands of text messages to warn civilians to evacuate and dropped millions of leaflets. No other military in the world goes to these lengths.
Hamas instruct civilians to ignore these warning claiming they are a trap.

For all that I believe the settlements in the West Bank are both provocative and illegal.

I openly applaud and support their efforts in Gaza.
 
fillyboy said:
Give back' implies the land belonged to the Palestinians in the first place. There has never been an independent State of Palestine.
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The people who lived there owned the buildings they were evicted from.
 
fillyboy said:
'Give back' implies the land belonged to the Palestinians in the first place. There has never been an independent State of Palestine. There could have been, UN resolution 181 gave them the opportunity to do so back in 1947, instead, the day after Israel declared statehood in 1948 (because they did accept UN resolution 181) five arab countries invaded Israel and started a war that lasted 9 months.
There was an opportunity after the 67 war, that was met with 'no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel'.
Two further rejections by Yasser Arafat. The sticking point was always about accepting the right of Israel to exist.
Now, after God knows how many wars and God knows how many intifadas, the arabs are saying they want a two state solution, something they've been openly rejecting for the last 75 years.
Even between the wars the PLO have seized every opportunity to strike out at Israel, whether by hijacking a plane full of passengers and segregating the 100 who were Jewish ready for execution (Entebbe) or by murdering every single one of their Olympic team (Munich).
Unless Hamas are destroyed there will be no two state solution because Hamas refuse to work with the PA, and make no mistake, whatever happens after this current conflict, Hamas will receive sufficient funding from other players to be able to go back to firing hundreds of rockets a day into Israel, from school playgrounds and hospitals naturally so that any retaliation by Israel will be seen as an attack on civilians.

I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made, of course they have. But to minimise civilian casualties the idf fire a small rocket onto a roof to warn of a larger rocket on it's way, they have made tens of thousands of phone calls and tens to thousands of text messages to warn civilians to evacuate and dropped millions of leaflets. No other military in the world goes to these lengths.
Hamas instruct civilians to ignore these warning claiming they are a trap.

For all that I believe the settlements in the West Bank are both provocative and illegal.

I openly applaud and support their efforts in Gaza.
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That's well written and to the point. Well ✔️ done ✔️

Edit: actually brilliant ✨️
 
IT Minion said:
The people who lived there owned the buildings they were evicted from.
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If you're talking about 1948, one of the reasons the Jews were offered a slightly higher area of land despite having a slightly lower portion of the population was because they legally owned more land than the arabs. Jews had been returning for hundreds of years and to farm that land they purchased it from the Turks, arabs on the other hand simply farmed where they sought fit until evicted by the legal owners, the arabs were nomadic in their approach.

If you're talking about present day West Bank, I only recently discovered that most of the demolitions carried out by Israel are on properties that do not have planning permission, and/or are built on land to which the builders have no legal ownership. I think Cornwall Council have done this on a number of occasions, and certainly in Bedfordshire the daughter of a certain Captain Tom fell foul of the council for similar reasons.

So when you say 'owned the buildings they were evicted from', are you quite sure?.
As I said earlier I think the Israelis should just get out of the West Bank (excluding Jerusalem obviously) and leave them to it.
 
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