Banjo bolt bodge

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oldbutnotdead

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Problem- failed hydraulic line on the suspension (Citroen C5 with the Hydractive stuff).
Problem 2- the parts are no longer manufactured. Standard thread (M10 x 1.25) with steel pipe , an alloy spacer/plug and fancy O rings so just ramming in a bit of 3/16 copper is a bit tricky
Solution- the faces are flat aluminium so banjo bolts and a spare Goodrich flexi should work?
Except the flat alloy faces aren't that flat- pitted and dinked from 20 years of corrosion.
Question- am I best off flatting the faces with wet and dry or filling the pits/dinks with chemical metal then flatting them. The system runs at between 80 and 200 bar (yes 2800 psi) so it needs to be a solid fix.

Ta for help, any novel suggestions appreciated
 
I think I'd go for a seal - or at least an attempt - using a banjo bolt and aluminium or copper washers before any flattening or filling.....that could always come later.
Sealants such as Heldtite are particularly good for applications such as these.
Any chance of a photo?
John :)
 
Pics coming once the rain stops. Yes i've already tried with banjos and copper washers- need to test my last effort (oversize copper washer), with a normal dia copper washer the fluid came p*ssing out from the banjo-ally coupling on one end. The other end there may be a slight weep (but that might have been build fluid or splash from the central fountain.
Ahh, thanks for the tip on Heldtite. The pics will tell the story- one end face is a bit pitted (think sealant will work there), the other end is a bit more battered.
Will update in an hour or so :).
Here's the original coupling, not 100% sure whether the green o ring goes between flare and alloy or between white ring and flare.
 

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Ah, this wasn't what I expected to see but it does take me back to the BX models we had.
I would have thought the green ring goes before the white ring, but don't know for certain. Peter N. was the guru on these, sadly he doesn't post too often now.
I would have thought that an independent Citroen specialist would be able to fix you up here with what you need?
John :)
 
There was one company in Leicester who were making lines up but they've stopped due to problems sourcing the fittings.
There are a couple of lads on frenchcarforum looking at fabbing the couplers- i have an enquiry in but no response yet.
Pics of the 'flat' faces to follow, just letting the system depressurise from my latest failed attempt with big copper washer (again fluid absolutely flying out in the plane of the banjo coupler.
 
You could try a scrap yard
www.ebay.co.uk

Citroen C5 2008 1.6 diesel breaking ALL PARTS AVAILABLE Auction For Wheel Stud | eBay

<body><p>Citroen C5 2008 1.6 diesel breaking ALL PARTS AVAILABLE Auction For Wheel Stud. Condition is "Used". Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class. </p><br /><p>Used items possibly may have signs of wear or slight marks, paint chipping, scratches etc..</p><br /><br /><p>Email or phone for the...
www.ebay.co.uk

or this may be worth a try

 
Old Salt said:
You could try a scrap yard
www.ebay.co.uk

Citroen C5 2008 1.6 diesel breaking ALL PARTS AVAILABLE Auction For Wheel Stud | eBay

<body><p>Citroen C5 2008 1.6 diesel breaking ALL PARTS AVAILABLE Auction For Wheel Stud. Condition is "Used". Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class. </p><br /><p>Used items possibly may have signs of wear or slight marks, paint chipping, scratches etc..</p><br /><br /><p>Email or phone for the...
www.ebay.co.uk

or this may be worth a try

Click to expand...
Cheers - annoyingly my local scrapyard has gone (gentrification dontcha know), typical prices online are £80-odd which is a bit steep given the potential for it to be damaged on removal. Steam-seal you say. Hmmmm...more pics about to follow
 
Right. Here's the end that failed (spectacularly - a gusher of fluid which i didn't video cos at £10/litre this game is getting pricey.IMG_20230813_191827273.jpg
The gusher was coming from the large copper washer- posh T piece interface. Or possibly from under that plastic cover but i don't believe so, there was no sign of leakage at that end before i started playing.
Here's the mating face- looks pretty rubbish to me.
IMG_20230813_192305309.jpg
And another
IMG_20230813_192309820.jpg
And another
IMG_20230813_192315951.jpg
Here's the other end - this was slightly wet rather than erupting.
IMG_20230813_191833206.jpg
And here's its face- in better nick (of course, its much easier to get to than the t piece face)
IMG_20230813_192814228.jpg
So.
Do these look like suitable candidates for Heldtite or similar (assuming i get no luck on my continued quest for a proper replacement)

TIA
 
That Citroen is advertised on ebay so may be worth contacting the seller. You could always ask for pictures before buying.

I would be inclined to give the faces a rub with some worn emery wrapped around a flat file. Just more of a polish rather than taking lots of material off to achieve a flat face. A dowty seal may be better than a copper washer. Although a crush washer may also help create a seal. I cant remember if that’s its correct name, a circular hollow copper washer that crushes down as you tighten the banjo bolt. If you use a flat copper washer make sure its annealed first.

I don't think oversize washers would be successful unless they are absolutely perfectly flat and square to the mating faces.

I am a big fan of heldtite and used it successfully over many years. If you use any of the methods above I would make sure to leave it overnight to set/dry before introducing any pressure.

You could also try one of these new products they use to seal mating faces of gearboxes etc nowadays.

You could also try belzona, its a two part mix that can be used to fill pitts. It needs to be scrupulously clean and oil and grease free. You could then flatten the faces with a smooth file.

www.belzona.com

Belzona 1111 (Super Metal)

Belzona 1111 (Super Metal) is a 2-part epoxy-based repair composite designed for metal repair and protection.
www.belzona.com www.belzona.com

A small engineering works may be able to weld those pitts to build up the surface before re machining the faces.

Its actually quite an interesting challenge.
 
That large copper washer is distorting.....with banjo connections, the washers need to be the same diameter as the banjo itself.
Try alloy washers, which can be annealed of course!
VAG cars suffered badly from this where the flexy brake pipes mated to the caliper many years ago - thick alloy washers sorted it.
John
P.s. great pics, thanks!
 
I should have also said, any washers must be tight on the banjo bolt, with negligible clearance so when they are tightened they swage onto the bolt itself.
John
 
Cheers both. If the banjo bolt was long enough i'd have put a steel washer behind the large copper (to prevent the deformation), it did occur to me that that large washer might dish rather than seal to the less pitted outer circumference.
The connection on the suspension strut (that was weeping) is of course much easier to get at- very easy to knock that one down a bit with wet and dry.
The connection on the posh T piece is a bit nastier to access cos of the plastic carrier. Which I'm not going to try to remove cos there are 2 other steel lines going into it, good odds i'd knacker one or the other.
So the plan for tomorrow is;
Have another ring round, see if i can get a legit item (or a local bunch who can fab something up).
If that fails, carefully trim the placcie mount so i can get a good go at the face and knock some of the pits out with wet and dry (or might go really old school and use valve grinding paste and a piece of glass)
When Amazon delivers my tube of Heldtite, whack some on, remake the joints with proper copper banjo washers (lovingly annealed with the blowlamp), leave them overnight & try again on Tue.
If either option succeeds, supplementary jobs are mend the strap under the fuel tank (ground off due to rear suspension being on the floor), fit new bump stops (see earlier), gentle wire brush and Hammerite on some of the shoddy bits, gun gum on the hole in the silencer i spotted while underneath pratting about with suspension.....and hopefully the preloved exhaust for the van will arrive so i can get that on and get to the Manx next weekend.
Happy days.....
 
Old Salt said:
You could try a scrap yard
www.ebay.co.uk

Citroen C5 2008 1.6 diesel breaking ALL PARTS AVAILABLE Auction For Wheel Stud | eBay

<body><p>Citroen C5 2008 1.6 diesel breaking ALL PARTS AVAILABLE Auction For Wheel Stud. Condition is "Used". Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class. </p><br /><p>Used items possibly may have signs of wear or slight marks, paint chipping, scratches etc..</p><br /><br /><p>Email or phone for the...
www.ebay.co.uk

or this may be worth a try

Click to expand...
Fair point- whats to lose.
Rocol- now there's a brand i've not encountered for a while. Still only halfway down the tub of cutting conpound i bought about 20 years ago :)
 
Quick update.
Scrappies are the only option now for the proper pipe- Citroen have no stock.
Spoke to a nice chap at a company called Pleiades (who specialise in this sort of stuff)- they can't replicate the flare. He did mention that the T piece (where the monster leak is) is only a casting (not machined) so facing that off is this afternoon's project - ideally when the rain stops!
Of course the ideal would be take it off and drop it to my mate to get it properly faced- but that would mean disconnecting 2 more unions.....
 
That's a pity, it's a long time since I was into Citroens, but I was going to suggest Pleiades! These guys seem to be suggesting compression fittings:

LDS Hydraulics

Eurocarcare Ltd. Specialists in Discount Parts, Service & Repair of Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, Fiat & Alfa Romeo. Express shipping daily worldwide. Next day delivery to UK.
www.eurocarcare.net www.eurocarcare.net

Could you buy ANY C5 pipe that has the same union, and then just cut and join it further along?
 
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