Best LNB for 8 Feeds To House - Hybrid Options

[*Dan*]

I can see the value of that with big existing installations such as block of flats. The £100-ish for the TMDS 42 C as a quick and relatively cheap bolt-on to a system has got to be appealing to landlords. The alternative is to rip out perfectly functional distribution and then spend several thousands of Pounds installing Q-compatible gear, not to mention the significant disruption for a day or more to people's Sat' reception. I know which I'd choose

What I'm not so clear on is the value to someone starting pretty-much from scratch without any headend gear.

Apart from say owning the hybrid LNB that might have come as part of a Sky Q install, someone in @*Dan*'s position isn't really invested in any hardware already. I'm struggling a bit here to see the benefit of spending £100 or so on some extra bit of hardware to make a Hybrid LNB compatible, all to avoid spending £30 on a proper Quattro LNB. Maybe I'm missing something, but the sums don't seem to add up.

Is it not cheaper and less complicated just to do this correctly from the word Go?

@*Dan*'s goal here (unless it has changed) is to have something that serves his immediate needs but that is also future-proofed as far as a possible return to Sky Q. He hasn't said as much, but it's sensible too to look at where satellite receivers/recorders are going. The next generation gear (*Gen 3) is already here. These Freesat receivers/recorders break the link between 1-cable = 1-tuner.

He needs to serve signals to four rooms; two cables per room. This means he'll need eight connections at the headend. Obviously an Octo LNB is the simple and cheap solution, but it means having eight cables coming from the dish to the distribution point. It's cheap but ugly and not future-proofed.

One alternative is to keep the existing hybrid LNB (new value £25-ish?), and then buy a Quad-compatible multiswitch. Yes, they exist. But I can't find anything from Triax, Televes, Fracarro, Whyte or Iverto that offers both Quad compatibility and the skill of providing both wideband and legacy support on its outputs. AFAICT, there's no overlap with those two functions in a single product. You can have Quad compatibility but no wideband output, or you can have legacy+wideband output future-proofing so long as you buy a £30 Quattro LNB.

This brings us to the TMDS 42 C. TTBOMK this type of product is the only way to add wideband compatibility to a multiswitch that supports a standard Quad LNB. The catch is the cost (TMDS 42 C + an 8-output multiswitch + power supplies) and additional complexity all to save £30 on a Quattro LNB.

Is that really a sensible solution?



*The Arris boxes marketed under the Freesat brand support multiple tuners, similar to the Sky Q recorder. In the case of the Arris, it's possible to record up to four channels simultaneously when the box is getting two wideband feeds. In legacy mode, the standard 1-cable = 1-tuner rule applies. The box adjusts accordingly.

Interesting to know that the switch option could be used with my current hybrid LNB and commit to one of the rooms being fed from the two sky q outputs on the LNB itself and the other four into a switch. That is the cheaper way of doing it as I guess the multi switch I need for that is cheaper than the triax 508 that lucid suggested earlier in the post. The other benefit with this is that I already have the feeds coming into my loft from the dish so would just be a case of getting a switch and then plugging in my room feeds into the switch. BUT as lucid alluded to, I don't think it is worth the outlay considering the hassle I have gone through to fish all 4 twin cables up into the loft from around the house - the things I do not to have cables on the outside wall! I currently have all rooms fed with terrestrial TV at the moment anyway so there is no rush (or nagging!) to get the signal up and running and I am trying to really future proof the setup more than anything.

I am currently building a internet network so I could actually mount the multiswitch in the same cabinet and have everything run from there. Going forward, any new boxes we get will at least work and wont be stuck with old technology given that most of the hard work (fishing cables) is done. The biggest issue really is getting a quattro LNB fitted onto my dish as its 3-4m up on the wall. Once the feeds for the quattro are installed would this just be a case of plugging in all four into the switch and it will work or is there configuration required?

On the TDSR 508 i noticed there are two lots of LNB inputs on each side and also there is an extra connection next to these 4 LNB inputs labelled T?

 

[flameport]

The T input is for a terrestrial aerial, which is then available at all of the outputs with the satellite signals.

 

[*Dan*]

The T input is for a terrestrial aerial, which is then available at all of the outputs with the satellite signals.

Ah right I see so if I plugged my terrestrial feed into the switch and then went to a TV and scanned for freeview only it would pick up the freeview channels via the switch and not the freesat channels ? That’s good to know frees up a lot of cabling already set up for terrestrial tv in my house

 

[winston1]

One snag to all this is that quatro LNBs are not made that match as sky dish as far as I know.

 

[Lucid]

Winston1 makes a valid point. The shape of something called the scaler rings and the feed horn is round. The best match then will be a round dish.

A quattro will work with an oval dish to a degree, but it isn't as good a match as with a round dish. The signal level from the LNB won't be quite as high.

A quick Google search appears to show that there are brackets to fit a Quattro LNB to a Sky dish arm. Just as with swapping any LNB though, there are various generations of Sky dish, so making sure that the mount fits the arm is an important step.

The whole thing is a lot simpler to buy a kit. That will supply a quattro LNB, a matching round dish,and even a wall bracket, as a whole package. Prices start from under £70 for the whole lot. Have a look here:
https://www.satellitesuperstore.co.uk/satellite_dishes_with_quatro_lnbs.htm

 

[*Dan*]

Winston1 makes a valid point. The shape of something called the scaler rings and the feed horn is round. The best match then will be a round dish.

A quattro will work with an oval dish to a degree, but it isn't as good a match as with a round dish. The signal level from the LNB won't be quite as high.

A quick Google search appears to show that there are brackets to fit a Quattro LNB to a Sky dish arm. Just as with swapping any LNB though, there are various generations of Sky dish, so making sure that the mount fits the arm is an important step.

The whole thing is a lot simpler to buy a kit. That will supply a quattro LNB, a matching round dish,and even a wall bracket, as a whole package. Prices start from under £70 for the whole lot. Have a look here:
https://www.satellitesuperstore.co.uk/satellite_dishes_with_quatro_lnbs.htm

I was planning on placing the switch and the feeds for the other rooms in my network rack but I am a little concerned with electromagnetic interference on the ethernet cables as they will be in close proximity to one another.

I am not sure if the switch (triax TDSR) boosts the signal like a simple terrestrial booster would as this could cause EMF on the CAT 6 ethernet cable? I am not convinced it would be enough as surely there is not much current going through the WF100 boosted or not?

 

[Lucid]

UTP Cat cable. Blanced TX and RX pairs. Good quality double shielded coax. I take it you'll be dressing the cables in the rack too?

I think you're more likely to pick up interference from a dodgy power su

 

[*Dan*]

UTP Cat cable. Blanced TX and RX pairs. Good quality double shielded coax. I take it you'll be dressing the cables in the rack too?

I think you're more likely to pick up interference from a dodgy power su

Yes I am using cat 6 UTP cable and I have WEBRO WF100 cable throughout the house. Is the WF100 cable double shielded as I just went on the website for the spec but could not see any reference to the shielding 'layer'. I noticed the HD100 is triple screened but not sure if this means the WF100 is double or not.

I am either going t have them in the rack or have the setup next to it - it may be quite tricky to get them all neat in the rack given the rigidity of the cable itself. I could just place the tv setup in the loft away from the rack but it would be good to have it all in one place. I don't want to find I spend all the time having all my data and TV setup together but have EMF issues through the data cables. As you say though I cannot imagine the voltages and power involved with a switch would cause a high enough current to cause EMF issues.

 

[Lucid]

Yes. WF100 Is double shielded. A foil layer and then a braid layer over the top.

All decent coax for digital TV use is supposed to be double shielded. There are differences though in the quality of that shielding. WF100 uses an all copper foil plus a
reasonably dense weave of copper braid.

Cheaper versions of RG6 use a metallised plastic foil called Mylar. They cheap out on the braid too;. aluminium is a less effective conductor than copper for wicking away the interference energy than copper. Nor does it last so well in the presence of a bit of moisture. The final bit of damning news is the weave often isn' that dense either.

HD100 is triple shielded, but its no more effective than WF100 at TV/satellite signal frequencies. However, Virgin has rhe potential to use frequencies much lower down the frequency spectrum. Thats what the additional shielding is for.

 

[*Dan*]

Yes. WF100 Is double shielded. A foil layer and then a braid layer over the top.

All decent coax for digital TV use is supposed to be double shielded. There are differences though in the quality of that shielding. WF100 uses an all copper foil plus a
reasonably dense weave of copper braid.

Cheaper versions of RG6 use a metallised plastic foil called Mylar. They cheap out on the braid too;. aluminium is a less effective conductor than copper for wicking away the interference energy than copper. Nor does it last so well in the presence of a bit of moisture. The final bit of damning news is the weave often isn' that dense either.

HD100 is triple shielded, but its no more effective than WF100 at TV/satellite signal frequencies. However, Virgin has rhe potential to use frequencies much lower down the frequency spectrum. Thats what the additional shielding is for.

Is there a recommended maximum distance for the feed from the quattro lnb to the switch. I am sure I read somewhere 10 metres is the comfortable limit and my run would be getting close to that probably around 9 metres.

The cable sky supply has that aluminium braid - If I ever get sky in the future in another property I will give them a reel of WF100 and get them to use that. I wonder if the 'approval' card would then be used...

 

[Lucid]

Is there a recommended maximum distance for the feed from the quattro lnb to the switch. I am sure I read somewhere 10 metres is the comfortable limit and my run would be getting close to that probably around 9 metres.

The cable sky supply has that aluminium braid - If I ever get sky in the future in another property I will give them a reel of WF100 and get them to use that. I wonder if the 'approval' card would then be used...

As always, if this or any other answer helped you, please click the THANKS button on those posts. It costs you nowt to do and is quicker than typing a post with the words "thanks"


A limit of 10 metres doesn't sound that useful. I guess though that if someone is trying to use an oval Sky dish (less signal level) with a poorer grade Quattro LNB (less signal), and then using poor quality cable (RG6 with a steel core and aluminium braid is up to 2dB or 25% more lossy per 100m at satellite signal frequencies than WF100), and then combining that with a lower grade switch (more lossy) and finally finishing off with the same low grade coax, then the total losses will mount up.

Avoid all these compromises and your cable length from the switch to the sat receivers is closer to the 50m limit that I'm more familiar with.

 

[ironsidebod]

You're not going to fix this with an LNB alone.

What you need is a solution that will service the requirements of your standard Freesat gear now, but also cope with any stuff that requires a wideband signal such as Sky Q and the latest generation of Freesat receivers that work on the same principle. There is an answer...

The new range of dSCR multiswitches combined with a Quattro LNB will do this.

The Quattro LNB simultaneously supplies the switch with all four switching states of a satellite signal. The new type dSCR switch takes those signals and makes them available to any of its outputs. Now here's the clever bit of the new dSCR switches: It senses the type of signal request from either n conventional or wideband receiver/recorder, and then it formats the signal going down each wire to match.

What this means is that you can mix and match legacy receivers with wideband receivers in the same system. To clarify that, say two of your rooms have conventional Freesat recorders and one room has a Sky Q box and the remaining room has the latest generation wideband Freesat receiver. All can co-exist in the same system, and all get exactly the signals they need even though you have just four wires coming off the dish and feeding the switch and just two wires going to each room.

Quattro LNBs are different to Quad LNBs, so make sure you get the right type as this won't work with a standard Quad LNB.

Various manufacturers make dSCR switches. They come in 4-output, 8-output and 16-output versions. Have a look at the Triax TdSCR 508 as a starting point.


As always, if this or any other answer helped, please click the THANKS button on those posts. It costs you nowt to do and is quicker than typing a post with the words "thanks"

Late to the party but the multi switches (I have the Triax 508) allow you to use a Sky Q LNB so only two cables, job done. No more quattro etc and the best bit is the Sky Q LNB fits the "normal" sky minidish so you don't have all the messing about / having to use adapters to use LNBs that were not designed to fit this type of dish.

 

[Lucid]

Late to the party but the multi switches (I have the Triax 508) allow you to use a Sky Q LNB so only two cables, job done. No more quattro etc and the best bit is the Sky Q LNB fits the "normal" sky minidish so you don't have all the messing about / having to use adapters to use LNBs that were not designed to fit this type of dish.

Useful info. Thanks for posting

 

[danechip]

There, have a 'thanks'

 

[*Dan*]

Late to the party but the multi switches (I have the Triax 508) allow you to use a Sky Q LNB so only two cables, job done. No more quattro etc and the best bit is the Sky Q LNB fits the "normal" sky minidish so you don't have all the messing about / having to use adapters to use LNBs that were not designed to fit this type of dish.

That would save a lot of work as I currently have a sky hybrid LNB which has the two LNB feeds from the wideband connectors in the loft. When you say ‘normal’ mini dish are you talking about a more round dish as opposed to the oval ones? My dish is only a few years old and not sure if that would be a problem with signal..

Was the 508 plug and play or was there a bit of tweaking involved with it?