Danfoss TP9000, TP5000 & Smart Heating

[Daint]

Tado support have now got back to me, it appears that the issue has now been resolved. I wrote a summary of what I'd done where I was, and I got the message back:
"I have un-linked the RUxxxyyyzzz (Upstairs) from the Extension Kit, it is independent now."

And it does indeed seem to be heating independently.

Thanks for the support here, @stem it's much appreciated.

 

[hump3]

First off - apologies for resurrecting this thread

I am in exactly the same position with a new build and simply need to know which components to purchase from the Tado site, as its not clear to me.
Can anyone help translate "So I’ve purchased the Tado Extension Kit, Smart Thermostat Starter Kit and an additional Smart Thermostat." - into the relevant products on the Tado website please?

https://www.tado.com/gb-en/tado-products-overview

I think I'm confused by the wired/wireless parts

 

[stem]

That all depends on what you want to control, which depends upon the heating system you have. The controls you have will be designed to control the system as it has been installed, so the Tado components you choose will depend upon the design of the system you have. So some information about your system is required.

1. Does your system have a stored hot water system attached? (ie a hot water cylinder) or, is it a combi boiler ? (ie instant hot water produced straight from the boiler when a tap is opened) If it has stored hot water, what device do you use presently to select the on / off times that the water is heated?

2. How many heating zones are there? (room thermostats) just one? or is there more than one? Perhaps one for living areas and a separate one for bedrooms for example?

3. Are the room thermostat(s) programmable, in that you can set different temperatures at different times? Or is there some separate device controlling the heating on / off times?

 

[hump3]

Hey Stem, thanks for replying and apologies for not being clearer

I have the exact same setup as the original poster - Ideal Logic Heat 15 boiler with a Danfoss TP9000 controller downstairs, I have a separate hot water cylinder upstairs, and a separate TP5000 zone thermostat in the Master Bedroom.

I'm just confused with what I need to order from Tado to get the multi zone setup (despite emailing them!) - I just need to know what the original poster on this thread ordered as the setups are identical.

Any assistance greatly appreciated.

 

[stem]

If you have the same set up as the OP then you will need the same parts....

Tado
A Tado thermostat plus an extension kit (Receiver) gives control of one heating zone and hot water. This would replace the TP9000. With the Tado extension kit, the wiring terminals are exactly the same as the TP9000 [N, L, 1, 2, 3, 4,] The remote sensor in the TP9000 terminals 5 & 6 is simply disconnected and removed.

A second Tado thermostat can be wired in directly so will replace the upstairs TP5000 without a separate receiver.

Tado requires a separate internet bridge to be connected to your router to connect it to the internet.

Thanks for the clarification @stem.So I’ve purchased the Tado Extension Kit, Smart Thermostat Starter Kit and an additional Smart Thermostat.

....which would appear to be what you have ordered.

 

[hump3]

That's not me Apologies again for any confusion.

I need to know which one of these match what Daint bought as we all have the same boiler, thermo, controller & zone setup.

Starter Kit - Wired Smart Thermostat V3+
Starter Kit - Wireless Smart Thermostat V3+

Add-on - Wired Smart Thermostat
Add-on - Wireless Temperature Sensor

He seems to have "Tado Extension Kit, Smart Thermostat Starter Kit and an additional Smart Thermostat" but I can't translate that to the above products listed on the Tado site (feeling stupid )

 

[stem]

I know it wasn't you . You asked what Daint had bought, and so I posted his quote where he said what he had bought.

Anyway, it was:

1. The Tado smart thermostat - starter kit with hot water control. This included:

• Tado Thermostat (wirelessly communicates with the Extension Kit to control one heating zone and also replaces the TP9000's remote sensor)
• Extension Kit (Replaces the TP9000 and provides a wireless receiver for the thermostat & provides hot water programmer functions)
• Internet bridge

To see the details of what's included in the starter kit, you can read the installation manual for the latest version of the product [V3+] if you click here.

2. An additional Smart Thermostat

To control the second heating zone and wired in to replace the TP5000 [I think this product has been updated so the diagrams I gave Daint may be slightly different]

 

[hump3]

thanks for helping Stem - much appreciated.

 

[TeeJayJay]

Hi Daint and stem,

Thank you both for this post. My setup is pretty much identical to Daint's. But I have a Zone question! Sorry!

Ground Floor
Boiler: Ideal Logic Heat 24
Programmer: Danfoss TP9000
Thermostat in Hall: Danfoss TS2 (Presumably this is what is connected to TP9000 points 5 and 6?)

2nd Floor
Thermostat on 2nd Floor: TP5000

Rads
TP9000 Controls all radiators on ground and first floor, except Landing Radiator on first floor.
TP5000 Controls:

• Landing radiator on first floor
• Bedroom 4, Bedroom 5, and Towel Radiator on 2nd Floor

Hall Radiator on Ground Floor has NO TRV - to work in conjunction with TS2 thermostat.
Bedroom 4 has two radiators with NO TRVs - as the TP5000 is in the same room.

Kits
I bought:

• Starter Kit - Wireless Smart Thermostat
  • 1 Wireless Temperature Sensor (Installed into Lounge)
  • 1 Wireless Receiver (Programmer with Hot Water Control) - (Installed to replace TP9000)
• Numerous Smart TRVs (Installed and working)
• Smart Wired Thermostat - (Waiting delivery)

A Tado thermostat plus an extension kit (Receiver) gives control of one heating zone and hot water. This would replace the TP9000. With the Tado extension kit, the wiring terminals are exactly the same as the TP9000 [N, L, 1, 2, 3, 4,] The remote sensor in the TP9000 terminals 5 & 6 is simply disconnected and removed.

As per above ... Terminal 5 and 6 ... I presume that these are the connections which go to the remote TS2 thermostat in the hall? Is that correct?
I've moved these to Parking 5 & 6 on the Tado.

Tado support have now got back to me, it appears that the issue has now been resolved. I wrote a summary of what I'd done where I was, and I got the message back:
"I have un-linked the RUxxxyyyzzz (Upstairs) from the Extension Kit, it is independent now."

I presume I need to do the same.

Zone questions:

1. My confusion is that if the TP5000 is wired, then where do the wires go in order to call for heat? Would they go separately to the boiler, rather than via the TP9000?
2. If Bedroom 4 has the Smart Wired Thermostat, then if it isn't calling for heat, then Bedroom 5 and the Towel Radiator both with TRV's won't be able to demand heat will they as they are all on the same zone?
   • Do I need to get Tado Support to put those two Smart TRV's onto the Wired Thermostat ... so when they call for heat, that heating to that zone is initiated?
   • Should I look to get TRV's added to Bedroom 4's radiators, and have that Zone 2 collapsed back into Zone 1?

Thanks all for your help in advance

 

[stem]

The TP9000 which is being removed is wired as below:

The remote sensor is an integral part of the TP9000 (albeit remotely located) it should be removed along with the TP9000.

Zone questions:

1. My confusion is that if the TP5000 is wired, then where do the wires go in order to call for heat? Would they go separately to the boiler, rather than via the TP9000?

The thermostats do not control the boiler. They are wired to motorised valves that look something like this (other makes are available )

There will be one motorised valve for each zone. When a thermostat calls for heat, the valve opens, when the temperature is reached the valve closes. So in your case, the downstairs zone motorised valve will be wired to the TP9000 and the upstairs zone motorised valve to the TP5000.

2. If Bedroom 4 has the Smart Wired Thermostat, then if it isn't calling for heat, then Bedroom 5 and the Towel Radiator both with TRV's won't be able to demand heat will they as they are all on the same zone?

That is correct. When the motorised valve associated with each zone is closed by the room thermostat, then that switches off all of the radiators on that zone. This is why positioning of the room thermostat is vital. It should be located in one of the last areas to heat up so that the other rooms are already warm (but not overheated as their TRV's will prevent that) before the room thermostat turns off the whole zone. The radiator where the room thermostat is located should not have a TRV fitted, as one will stop the other working properly.

The two zone approach is a building regulations requirement. So I'm guessing that your home is quite new. The building regulations require that the sleeping areas to be on a separate zone to the living areas. This is for energy saving as it allows the bedrooms to be controlled separately from the living areas, in that the bedrooms can be off during the day or at a lower temperature that the rest of the house.

Which zone the radiators are on is determined by their plumbing connections. Not the controls.

 

[GriffoDIY]

Hi @Daint & @stem,
I have found your thread searching for some solution for this particular setup. I happen to have exactly the same as Daint. I have been thinking for a while about moving to a Smart Heating system to ensure better temperature balance across the house and also greater flexibility for stay and away periods in the hope to achieve some energy savings.
Having had a look at different options and having read yours I came to the conclusion my options were either Tado (as above) or Drayton Wiser (not discussed yet I believe).
Althought the Tado would make my life easier, I have to say I am in favour of the Wiser solution. Below the pros and cons I have found:

PROS

• I like it shows set and current temp plus humidity on the thermostat display.
• The TRV smart thermostats allow for local boost and also to lower the setting if too worm. e.g. no need for guests to have the app or for you to go for your phone you left in another floor. Am I wrong with this and the Tado TRVs have this function too?
• It doesn't require a subscription so geofencing and windows open detection can be done for free.
• Their kits have been available for as little a £86.99 on the Black Friday sales (almost £100 less than usual).
• It doesn't require another device to be plugged into my router (so many devices need this nowadays I might well end up with a rack mouted switch!)

CONS

• It doesn't show the temp on the TRV valves.

Now the challenge. It seems the "Multizone Heating and Hot Water" Hub is a direct swap with the TP9000 like the Tado. The thermostat on the ground floor must be removed and its function can be replaced with the Wiser thermostat on the same location. TRVs are not a problem either. However, as the Wiser thermostat is wireless (I believe no wired option is available), an additional one cannot replace the TP5000 upstairs to control that circuit.

It is at this point I got stuck and thought would come for your wise-r advise

I have considered a few approaches, some might be a bit crazy but worth always sharing:

1. Leave the TP5000 in place, however this would kill part of the functionality even when fitting the Wiser TRVs uptairs.
2. Go for the Dual Channel version of the kit, which handles two water circuits plus hot water. However this uses a very different wiring, and I don't think it is the right alternative as the circuit upstairs was designed to be "dependant" on the ground floor circuit heating control. In any case, if this is the right solution it would likely mean rewiring the wiring centre and passing an additional cable from there to the hub for the additional channel.
3. Fitting a an additional single channel heating hub in the current TP5000 location, in order for it to close the circuit via its relay. This additional hub would be commanded by an additional wireless thermostat next to it. The issue here is the hub would need mains power which is not available at the TP5000 location so it would involve getting an electrician to do that. Plus it wouldn't look that great. Alternatively, can I place it next the the wiring centre and get power from it too?
4. Leave this all alone and get a Tado. I guess currently with the V3+ only available there is no option but to swallow the subscription if you want the extra features?

Thanks for your help in advance. Obviously I would like to find a solution, but even if it doesn't I hope this can help others that come to the same dilemma about smart heating systems.

 

[TeeJayJay]

The TP9000 which is being removed is wired as below:

View attachment 213301

The remote sensor is an integral part of the TP9000 (albeit remotely located) it should be removed along with the TP9000.



The thermostats do not control the boiler. They are wired to motorised valves that look something like this (other makes are available )

View attachment 213302

There will be one motorised valve for each zone. When a thermostat calls for heat, the valve opens, when the temperature is reached the valve closes. So in your case, the downstairs zone motorised valve will be wired to the TP9000 and the upstairs zone motorised valve to the TP5000.


That is correct. When the motorised valve associated with each zone is closed by the room thermostat, then that switches off all of the radiators on that zone. This is why positioning of the room thermostat is vital. It should be located in one of the last areas to heat up so that the other rooms are already warm (but not overheated as their TRV's will prevent that) before the room thermostat turns off the whole zone. The radiator where the room thermostat is located should not have a TRV fitted, as one will stop the other working properly.

The two zone approach is a building regulations requirement. So I'm guessing that your home is quite new. The building regulations require that the sleeping areas to be on a separate zone to the living areas. This is for energy saving as it allows the bedrooms to be controlled separately from the living areas, in that the bedrooms can be off during the day or at a lower temperature that the rest of the house.

Which zone the radiators are on is determined by their plumbing connections. Not the controls.

Thank you so much. Educated now on which bits control which functions!

Smart Wired Thermostat fitted to replace the Zone 2 - TP5000. Working well. Logged a call with Tado Customer Services, and awaiting them doing their magic.

 

[Luke Blindell]

I have just purchased the tado° Wireless Smart Thermostat Starter Kit V3+ with Hot Water Control and am struggling on how to wire the Wireless Receiver v3 in place of the TP9000. I have attached images of the removed TP9000 and the Wireless Receiver. I know 5 & 6 or no longer needed at were for the TS2 sensor but as for rest, I'm not sure. Can someone simply explain what goes where, for example wire 1 now goes into CH COM etc.

I have another general system query. Our bedroom has a thermostat which will be replaced by a tado wired thermostat. However, we want this room kept cool, but another room on this same floor needs to be warmer. Can I set the tado in our bedroom at 20 degrees, then the other room at 25 degrees using a tado smart radiator thermostat? My fear is that the bedroom thermostat controls the temperature of the whole floor so no room can be made warmer that our bedroom! If that is the case, is there a way around this?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

[stem]

Hi Luke, welcome to the forum.

For next time, ideally you should have started your own new post. Hijacking someone else's is against the forum rules. Don't do it now though because you will be duplicating your post and that's also against the rules.

Anyway, back to your question. Remove the remote sensor as you have ascertained, then you can determine what the wires from the TP9000 do from the diagram on the back of it.

The wires then are moved to the terminals at the Tado that have exactly the same function.

So:

TP N = Tado N

TP L = Tado L

TP 3 DHW On= Tado HW NO

TP 4 HTG On= Tado CH NO

Then the 3 Tado terminals L, CH COM and HW COM should be linked together.

I'm not sure how the Tado TRV works. Sorry I've never installed them, but I hear that Tado's helpline is good, so if you contact them to find out please post back their comments and it may help any others that follow later.

 

[Luke Blindell]

Hi Luke, welcome to the forum.

For next time, ideally you should have started your own new post. Hijacking someone else's is against the forum rules. Don't do it now though because you will be duplicating your post and that's also against the rules.

Anyway, back to your question. Remove the remote sensor as you have ascertained, then you can determine what the wires from the TP9000 do from the diagram on the back of it.

View attachment 218327

The wires then are moved to the terminals at the Tado that have exactly the same function.

View attachment 218328

So:

TP N = Tado N

TP L = Tado L

TP 3 DHW On= Tado HW NO

TP 4 HTG On= Tado CH NO

Then the 3 Tado terminals L, CH COM and HW COM should be linked together.

I'm not sure how the Tado TRV works. Sorry I've never installed them, but I hear that Tado's helpline is good, so if you contact them to find out please post back their comments and it may help any others that follow later.

Hi Stem,

Apologies for the hijacking. I thought since my specs were practically identical to this thread, it made sense, but I'll bear it in mind for future posts.

Thanks for your quick response. That is what I decided to take a punt on and your reply came through just as I'd finished but before flipping the fuses back on, so it was just in time to confirm I'd done it correctly. All seems to be working but I haven't attached the Smart Radiator Thermostats yet. I am also awaiting delivery of the Wired Smart Thermostat to replace the TP5000 in the master bedroom.

Once all finished, I'll see if all works as required!

Thanks.