Do you think Labour will win the next election ?

[Brigadier]

Makes no difference.
They're all out to screw us over.

It makes all the difference in the world.


Do / did you have a mortgage?
Savings?
A pension?

Or do / did you have none of the above but claim to be the epitome of financial good sense.....

.... while waiting for a windfall, or just hoping that "something will turn up"?

 

[Murdochcat]

Complete bolox, that’s got fa to do with the rise in poverty and rise in wealth inequality.

Problem is with you blinkered left wing rabib extremists you don't have any contact with reality

The hospital where the misses works in can't get people on UC or tax credits to do more hours as it simply isn't worth it. Some of them only work 16 hours per week.

This is a very good real example of why social mobility has stalled as low pay + UC or TC = low income. If they were allowed to keep 100% of some extra hours the would benefit but the system penalises them.

so @Notch7 whats your solution then? I'm ALL ears (or eyes).

You continually MOAN but NEVER offer any solutions other than tax the rich ........... but never say how you might achieve this AND retain the tax in the UK.

Prepare for higher tax and NI under Labour (or more cuts) , and the Liberals and Conservatives are no different.

And prepare to be hugely disappointed too after the next election.

 

[ajohn]

Why work more and not benefit is how a lot of this group think.

At one point a Tory argued all people need to do is work a couple of extra hours. Sounded great but with taper rates each £ was worth £0.63. Not the number she used.Then come contracts that don't allow people to work the extra hours. They just get what the outfit they are employed by allows. That can vary week to week. People tend to work in certain areas. Another complication. Other areas may not want them.

 

[Murdochcat]

Makes no difference.
They're all out to screw us over.

That needs to be on your election manifesto.

 

[JohnD]

I think blaming austerity is rather short sighted.

The view that you can solve an economic downturn by closing libraries, cutting childcare, reducing NHS capital spending and neglecting road repairs, is false. This has been known for about a hundred years. But punishing the poor for the damage caused by unregulated bankers and asset strippers still appeals to some right-wingers.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Problem is with you blinkered left wing rabib extremists you don't have any contact with reality

The hospital where the misses works in can't get people on UC or tax credits to do more hours as it simply isn't worth it. Some of them only work 16 hours per week.

This is a very good real example of why social mobility has stalled as low pay + UC or TC = low income. If they were allowed to keep 100% of some extra hours the would benefit but the system penalises them.

so @Notch7 whats your solution then? I'm ALL ears (or eyes).

You continually MOAN but NEVER offer any solutions other than tax the rich ........... but never say how you might achieve this AND retain the tax in the UK.

Prepare for higher tax and NI under Labour (or more cuts) , and the Liberals and Conservatives are no different.

And prepare to be hugely disappointed too after the next election.

So low pay doesn't help. And I don't mean increase minimum wage. Its the cost of living that matters.

If benefits are as good as working, then the pay is too low.

Subsidising employers isn't the answer, never has been, but it helps the rich

 

[Notch7]

Tax credits and UC handouts disencentivise people from getting better paid jobs or working longer hours

Evidence?

Why work more and not benefit is how a lot of this group think

Is it?

So you think everybody on benefits is a scrounger?

A woman suffering PTSD as a result of domestic violence….is a scrounger
A man suffering mental health issues…is a scrounger
Somebody with terminal cancer….is a scrounger
A break up leaving a woman with young children.l.l.is a lazy scrounger

Come on let’s see you say exactly what percentage of people on benefits are scroungers, is it 100%?

got 2nd jobs etc to earn more

So people don’t have 2nd jobs now?

You got evidence for that?

giving tax free cash out like the UK does

Do they?

where’s your evidence for that


You are just repeating the lazy tired arguments of the right wing media

I wonder the billionaire owners of the media want you to hate people on benefits…..maybe it’s because they don’t the public thinking about the vested self interest of Conservative Party that’s spent decades transferring wealth from the poor to the rich

 

[Brigadier]

You're so confused @Murdochcat , you don't know which way to turn.
Just a scattergun of conflicting, nonsensical, or both.

The hospital where the misses works in can't get people on UC or tax credits to do more hours as it simply isn't worth it. Some of them only work 16 hours per week.

Ever stopped to think "WHY"?
Perhaps they have caring or parental responsibilities, and cannot afford to work full-time in their poorly-paid roles?

This is a very good real example of why social mobility has stalled as low pay + UC or TC = low income. If they were allowed to keep 100% of some extra hours the would benefit but the system penalises them.

Or just pay them a decent wage in the first place, mebbe?

You continually MOAN but NEVER offer any solutions other than tax the rich ........... but never say how you might achieve this AND retain the tax in the UK.

Whereas your "solution" has only been for all of us to pay more tax.

"How much more are YOU willing to pay?" is something you've asked of Denso, more than once.

Prepare for higher tax and NI under Labour (or more cuts) , and the Liberals and Conservatives are no different.

Well, if this is one of the prongs of a multi-faceted approach to turning this country around, you might stop to think as to why it is necessary (clue: the last 14 yrs of economic clusterfuggery, and counting).

 

[ajohn]

The hospital where the misses works in can't get people on UC or tax credits to do more hours as it simply isn't worth it. Some of them only work 16 hours per week.

Interesting. Where I worked extra hours were overtime which of course paid more per hour. There are good reasons for this approach. It levels out staffing needs. There is no need to carry sufficient staff to cope with peaks. It especially suits the lower paid as they will want more money. Some wont want to do it for various reasons but nothing is perfect. In terms of contracts all sorts of options could be used.

The other aspect and it is an important one limited hours can relate to having kids.

 

[ajohn]

LOL Prepare for higher tax and ni under Labour? True it's a view but not their intent. On that score it's to look at other areas to obtain extra tax without interfering with the taxes the bulk of us pay including the high salary lot etc. Avoidance - a none manifesto intent. All do that at times. Also a full blown spending review which essentially concerns where the money availablle goes.

Ok so the Tory remain in power. The problems don't go away what are they going to do? Our plan is working. Are you kidding? We've bought inflation down. Rubbish it always tends to level off and the BofE helps. Where is the deflation to get prices back to where they were? That doesn't happen while the reasons for the inflations still exist. Looks like food is still increasing at too high a rate but that will level at some point. Some areas such as services are still very high.

In a press event a few days ago Starmer nearly laughed when an out of date reporter mentioned that the public did not know what he was intending to do. He added a new point. Only 10% of levelling up money has actually been spent. Same don't know comment has been made in this thread - say nothing and carry on working on Sunak - it's working. Tempted to say ill informed dick head but he isn't. Older news heading still sticks in his head when there is no reason for them to now.

Make work pay - easy pay more but what does that mean? Inflation and that very probably partly relates to problems in services and some other areas. It gains more tax and reduces support pay outs.

 

[johnny2007]

It makes all the difference in the world.


Do / did you have a mortgage?
Savings?
A pension?

Or do / did you have none of the above but claim to be the epitome of financial good sense.....

.... while waiting for a windfall, or just hoping that "something will turn up"?

I remember things starting to go tits up big time when we initiated a war based on lies.
I believe labour was in government at the time.
Our good old tony Blair dragged the country into the worst recession in modern times, all because he and his friends had to get richer.
Did you have a mortgage then?

 

[ajohn]

I believe labour was in government at the time.

True but the Tory at the time also supported it.

Our good old tony Blair dragged the country into the worst recession in modern times

Have you forgotten the banking crisis? It's interesting that some of the guards put in p-lace on preventing that again have been removed in some countries. It's an area that the UK has little influence on - it's purely down to what the banks get up to., Similar has happened before in Mrs Ts time - nothing to do with her. Just the banks. Answer at that time was rather high interest rates. OK as the problems were not as bad.

Problems now - worse, covid didn't help and then comes various reasons for inflation - all out of any gov's control.

 

[JohnD]

Our good old tony Blair dragged the country into the worst recession in modern times, all because he and his friends had to get richer.

Take me through your reasoning please.

What year did this UK-only recession start?

What did this Blair do to start it?

 

[johnny2007]

True but the Tory at the time also supported it.

Have you forgotten the banking crisis? It's interesting that some of the guards put in p-lace on preventing that again have been removed in some countries. It's an area that the UK has little influence on - it's purely down to what the banks get up to., Similar has happened before in Mrs Ts time - nothing to do with her. Just the banks. Answer at that time was rather high interest rates. OK as the problems were not as bad.

Problems now - worse, covid didn't help and then comes various reasons for inflation - all out of any gov's control.

Not out of government control at all.
Government could do what the majority of people want:
1. Get out of all wars, it's not our business.
2. Stop sending money to corrupt countries
3. Keep business interests active for the common good (Russian gas? Middle east oil?)
4. Stick 2 fingers at anyone who wants us to do something. We should do whatever is best for our people first and if there's enough leftover, then we could think about others.

Remember, politicians should act as good family leaders, do what's best for their family which sometimes might seem selfish.

 

[ajohn]

Government could do what the majority of people want:

Must admit why the UK always follows the US defeats me. An old idea that could well be correct is to help maintain our credit rating and areas like that. Weapons figure eg our subs being loaded up with US nukes each time they go out and returned when they come back. We have our own now but a US person would say copies. Fitted to US kit anyway.

A leak years ago. 2 US senators walking up the steps making sure the comment was recorded so it would be broadcast, It went "We have our empire now. An economic one". Any aid from the US means sticking to their foreign policy.

Scrap the armed forces? There would be an uproar. Drop out of the UN?

We make money by selling arms.

Aid. Corruption within countries doesn't have to relate to misuse of that. Tricky subject. In terms of goods/items it has cropped up even in Ukraine.

Countries have different laws, politics and even religions. What to do? Invade and sort them out? That doesn't seem to work out when it's done.

I do feel that a different solution was possible in the case of Russia but even if there was geopolitics would rule it out. They are different to us in a number of ways. Also resource rich. Arab states - well they have oil. Friends. Iran - it had a revolution, Lots of western assets lost. China - different and a growing economy and might.

China. New Zealand took a different approach. A trade deal

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-signs-pacts-with-friend-partner-new-zealand-2023-06-28/

Sad world in many ways but it is as it is and can't be ignored.