does external lift shaft need pp or br approval?

cristofa said:
@ endecotp ... people

@ freddiemercurystwin ... I didn't come to this forum for sarky condescension - I am not a planning/building regs expert and I hoped I might find some knowledge here beyond Google. Googling turned up nothing on domestic lift regulations; nor any building regs or planning law relating to interior or exterior lifts. The absence of a Google reference does not mean that such regulations do not exist, it could just mean one is just using different terminology in the search. Also, a 2013 reference does not tell you that the rules changed after it was written.

And wisdom has nothing to do with designing simple machines.

@ bernardgreen ... 220kg is the static load and I will come up with the dynamic load and safety margin when I've finalised the hydraulic mechanism.
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Bs en 81-41 gives you the safety factors you need for a platform lift.

For the hydraulic mechanism you need very low friction seals in your ram or the platform won't descend under its own weight. Also consider safe edges and how you are gong to lock the doors when the platform isn't there. You don't want to fall down the shaft like Stirling moss.

Good luck.
 
Are you familiar with LOLER ?

If building a shaft then planning need to know, you will be breaking the fire barriers between floors, and you probably need to ensure that there is a refuge provided in case of Fire, and a rescue window of a given size
 
I doubt between the floors is a fire barrier in a 2 storey domestic house! If you don't have fire doors onto your stairs you don't need them onto the lift.
 
bernardgreen said:
Will this be a hydraulic ram pushing on the under side of the carriage ?. or variable fill counter balance tank(s) using water.
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... the cantilevered platform (with hand rail) will be suspended on cables and will roll up and down wall-mounted rails. Appropriate pulleys take the load to a vertical wall-mounted hydraulic ram. Control is by house-mounted switches with safety overrides.
 
Tigercubrider said:
Are you familiar with LOLER ?

If building a shaft then planning need to know, you will be breaking the fire barriers between floors, and you probably need to ensure that there is a refuge provided in case of Fire, and a rescue window of a given size
Click to expand...

I had not heard of LOLER but, so far as I understand it, LOLER is a HSE issue in a work situation - as @John D v2.0 points out, this would probably not apply to a domestic two-storey application - unless you have info to say it does?
 
cristofa said:
I had not heard of LOLER
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I'm surprised that you had not heard of LOLER, because if you had done any sort of research on lift safety regulation you would have discovered it. It's true that it probably does not apply to you, but still you would have heard of it.

What I think does apply to you is the Lifts Regulations:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/1093/contents/made
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/lift-manufacture-and-installation-responsibilities-and-regulations

I've had a quick look and I can't immediately see any exceptions for DIY. It all seems to apply to anyone who "puts into service" a lift.
There does seem to be an exception if it is slower than 0.15 m/s.
 
cristofa said:
... the cantilevered platform (with hand rail) will be suspended on cables and will roll up and down wall-mounted rails. Appropriate pulleys take the load to a vertical wall-mounted hydraulic ram. Control is by house-mounted switches with safety overrides.
Click to expand...
If you use cables then you will need some sort of braking system to stop the platform crashing to the ground if the cable breaks. Platform lifts are normally lifted by a direct acting ram with anti rupture valves or nut and screw drive.

Rollers aren't appropriate for a cantilevered platform because of the high point loads. Solid guide blocks are more appropriate.
 
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endecotp said:
I'm surprised that you had not heard of LOLER, because if you had done any sort of research on lift safety regulation you would have discovered it. It's true that it probably does not apply to you, but still you would have heard of it.

What I think does apply to you is the Lifts Regulations:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/1093/contents/made
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/lift-manufacture-and-installation-responsibilities-and-regulations

I've had a quick look and I can't immediately see any exceptions for DIY. It all seems to apply to anyone who "puts into service" a lift.
There does seem to be an exception if it is slower than 0.15 m/s.
Click to expand...
Loler doesn't apply to disabled access platform lifts travelling at less than 0.15m/s for a mechanically driven lift or 0.08 m/s for a hydraulic lift. The machinery directive and bs en 81-41 covers this type of lift.
 
I've designed lift cores in 30 storey buildings (yep, things were great before 2008) and I've never heard of LOLER, so I wouldn't get too het up about it.
 
@ endecotp ... thank you for bringing those regs to my attention. It would appear that, if I keep the speed of the lift down to .15m/s, then none of those rules apply - I have no problem complying with that requirement.

@ Lower ... there will be 2 wires, each with a breaking strain > 2,500kg - what are the chances of both snapping simultaneously?

The discussion strayed from the topic somewhat but, re the lift, bear in mind that this is a simple, lightweight device to raise and lower a small load a short distance a few times a day - one needs to keep a sense of proportion!

Thank you for your help, gentlemen, I will draw it all up and submit a 'do I need planning permission' request and see what our local authority makes of the proposition. It was so much easier when you could take some sketches down to the planning office and have a natter about your project with the guy there who knew your work.
 
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