Driving without the clutch ?
- Thread starter masona
- Start date
This is how I was taught, if I'm in 4th gear coming up to a traffic light, I use all the gears to change down from 4th, 3rd then 2nd. If I leave it in 4th gear then use the brakes then the clutch would have to disengaged early so therefore it's coasting unless they mean just use 4th to 3rd gear only 
even so I still couldn't still do it in my car unless I use 2nd gear as well.
even so I still couldn't still do it in my car unless I use 2nd gear as well.Yes, I always thought that method taught good practice in car control.
Helps to make things second nature .... I am amazed at the number of people I am finding in fear of hill starts, even with modern cars having effective handbrakes, lack of confidence I suppose.
P
Helps to make things second nature .... I am amazed at the number of people I am finding in fear of hill starts, even with modern cars having effective handbrakes, lack of confidence I suppose.
P
Tried the clutchless gearchange! Due to the traffic there was only one chance on my whole drive home to try it, and I didn't manage it. Just couldn't get the engine revs matched right on that first attempt (no way would I force it, I just got an annoyed "whinny" from the gearbox as I tried to put it in 3rd at 30mph without clutch), and wasn't so bothered to go up and down the road trying it!
I did notice something a bit odd. You know how many gearboxes have a gate that prevents you selecting first gear above 5-10mph? I found something similar on third when not using the clutch! You can graunch the cogs as much as you like down to the minimum road speed for that gear, as soon as the engine revs would have to fall below idle there is a gate. Weird. This happened on my one attempt, as soon as the road speed fell below 15mph (speed at idle in 3rd). The stick just wouldn't move, couldn't get the cogs to kiss.
I did notice something a bit odd. You know how many gearboxes have a gate that prevents you selecting first gear above 5-10mph? I found something similar on third when not using the clutch! You can graunch the cogs as much as you like down to the minimum road speed for that gear, as soon as the engine revs would have to fall below idle there is a gate. Weird. This happened on my one attempt, as soon as the road speed fell below 15mph (speed at idle in 3rd). The stick just wouldn't move, couldn't get the cogs to kiss.
masona said:
Ah yes, this one caused a fair few disagreements in my family. My dad learned to drive in the 1960s, when cars were still referred to as "horseless carriages" and you had to swerve to avoid dinosaurs.
I learned in 1997, when cars no longer had a Fred-Flinstone hole in the bottom. I was having lessons from a rather good instructor (ex-police driver), and was lucky enough that my parents were willing to take me out to practice in my mum's car. But after a few drives, I wouldn't go driving with my dad any longer. The main points of contention being:
1) Block changes: the correct method as taught now when approaching say a roundabout is to slow down (not using the brakes, but by anticipation). When you are at an appropriate speed, change down from 4th to 2nd missing 3rd.
2) Correct use of 5th gear: If you learned to drive pre-1985 or so, it is unlikely you were taught in a car with a 5-speed box. The typical supermini is perfectly happy to drive at 30mph in 5th gear in a straight line. In fact the manual for the Ford Fiesta my instructor taught in stated that it is suitable to use at any speed from 29mph. Many "more seasoned" drivers treat 5th gear in the same way one would treat a 2-speed overdrive axle, that is you only use it on the motorway. Of course, it is different with bigger and faster cars as the gearing may make 30mph impractical in 5th.
3) National Speed Limit on a dual carriageway: Did they change this at some point? It is 70mph, but I have noticed so many people refusing to drive more than 60 on them. And several people of the "learned to drive in the 1960s" generation have told me it is 60. Even though it isn't.
4) Correct use of lights: Sidelights, or "parking lights" to give them their alternative name, are not to be used for driving. If it is suitably dim that you need any lights, use headlights. After all, lights are so others can see you more than so you can see others. And a dimly glowing parking light is no good to be seen.
Now I know I am not alone, most guys I knew learning to drive at the same time had the exact same disagreements with their fathers.
However, I do warn you that you will hear a fair amount of BS from your kids! I took my sister driving when she was a learner and she told me several porkies that she claimed she had been taught:
1) when reversing there is never a need to look behind you, mirrors alone suffice
2) there is no need to brake BEFORE a corner, THROUGH the corner is the correct way
3) Adam should shut up before he is made to walk home (well, she did repeat that one a lot
)You may even have your son tell you it is now taught to use front fog-lamps at all times, and display blue LEDs on the washer jets
60's ... Think of the Aston Martin DB4GT mean machine and 173 mph - fastest road car in it's day. ... David Brown made tractors too, didn't they ?
Question:- How do you drive without an engine ?
When I was about 15, one of the older farming lads, had an Austin 7 minus, bodywork, engine and gearbox .... a sophisticated 'trolley'.
We all rode the thing down across the fields, when there was no tractor available, we pushed the old '7' back to the ridge .. just for a turn at the wheel.
We became bored, to cut to the chase, pushed it to the top of Barrow hill South of bristol, before airport, main A38, several of us leaped on board for an exhilerating 3 mile run on real tarmac, when she finally coasted to a halt all of us except the poor chassis owner jumped off and ran for it !!!
Answer :- With lots of willing hands - Then 'Tis all downhill.
Question:- How do you drive without an engine ?
When I was about 15, one of the older farming lads, had an Austin 7 minus, bodywork, engine and gearbox .... a sophisticated 'trolley'.
We all rode the thing down across the fields, when there was no tractor available, we pushed the old '7' back to the ridge .. just for a turn at the wheel.
We became bored, to cut to the chase, pushed it to the top of Barrow hill South of bristol, before airport, main A38, several of us leaped on board for an exhilerating 3 mile run on real tarmac, when she finally coasted to a halt all of us except the poor chassis owner jumped off and ran for it !!!
Answer :- With lots of willing hands - Then 'Tis all downhill.
As a latecomer to this topic, I can add my support to the 'changing gears without a clutch' train of thought. I've never had a problem, both my VW Sharan and Peugeot 406 cope quite well and, whilst it can be un-nerving to start with, particularly if the roads are busy, practice does indeed make perfect.
I have also found (in a car that doesn't belong to me!!) that there is no substitute for brute force and showing the gearbox who is boss.....
Adam - I learned to drive pre-1985 and have no problem with using 5th (or even 6th gear) at relatively slow speeds i.e. 30 mph upwards. If it saves me a bit of petrol, then its good enough for me. This does of course assume you are travelling at a steady speed and not labouring the engine in trying to accelerate whilst in too high a gear which probably worsens the fuel consumption.
Whilst I agree that there is no need for using sidelights alone after dark, I seem to recall the highway code (perhaps an old edition) stating that dipped headlights were not necessary on a well lit road. It also seems that other people recall this 'rule' judging by the number of vehicles on a dark M62/M602 also using only their sidelights. Do they think they are saving money and the bulbs will last longer??
I have also found (in a car that doesn't belong to me!!) that there is no substitute for brute force and showing the gearbox who is boss.....
Adam - I learned to drive pre-1985 and have no problem with using 5th (or even 6th gear) at relatively slow speeds i.e. 30 mph upwards. If it saves me a bit of petrol, then its good enough for me. This does of course assume you are travelling at a steady speed and not labouring the engine in trying to accelerate whilst in too high a gear which probably worsens the fuel consumption.
Whilst I agree that there is no need for using sidelights alone after dark, I seem to recall the highway code (perhaps an old edition) stating that dipped headlights were not necessary on a well lit road. It also seems that other people recall this 'rule' judging by the number of vehicles on a dark M62/M602 also using only their sidelights. Do they think they are saving money and the bulbs will last longer??
C
carpetpaul
I've had my Astra Diesel from new, it's a work van, just about to pass 100,000 miles and it's still on the original clutch and original cable !
Had a waterpump, interior fan speed switch, and new wiper motor, door hinge pins, and check straps, but thats it.
Even still on the original suspension, and never had an exhaust part !
people still say vauxhalls are crap !
Had a waterpump, interior fan speed switch, and new wiper motor, door hinge pins, and check straps, but thats it.
Even still on the original suspension, and never had an exhaust part !
people still say vauxhalls are crap !
That's what baulk rings on synchromesh joints are for 
My dad remembers the early days of synchromesh gearboxes,when first gear was still straight-cut - it never occured to the designers that you would EVER need to change down into first when moving;you only use first for setting off,dont you ?
My dad remembers the early days of synchromesh gearboxes,when first gear was still straight-cut - it never occured to the designers that you would EVER need to change down into first when moving;you only use first for setting off,dont you ?
PowerTool said:That's what baulk rings on synchromesh joints are for
My dad remembers the early days of synchromesh gearboxes,when first gear was still straight-cut - it never occured to the designers that you would EVER need to change down into first when moving;you only use first for setting off,dont you ?
And pray, what happens to the synchro hubs when the clutch is not in use ? the driver gears are either 'driving' or 'retarding' not free to match rpm's as is the case with the clutch in. ... I say, you do not need 'graunching' noises from the box to be damaging it .... Mech sympathy would be to just give enough work to 'take any burrs off' leaving the gearwheels like new. Must be some cr ap motors around to have to 'drive without clutch' or peeps who really cannot afford to run them !!
'kin diyer's
P
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Paul_C
LOL!AdamW said:
Some good points you raise Adam.Instructors in the past may have decided that changing through every gear was always the "correct" method, but you'll find that many people soon realized that it was quite unnecessary and put increased wear and tear on the clutch and gearbox. My father always used block changes wherever possible, as do I. "The proper gear the for the conditions" should be the motto, and if that means block changing from 4th to 2nd, or up from 2nd to 4th on a downgrade, that's what I do.AdamW said:
Certainly the case with the Volvo I drove for a while that 5th gear was rather unsuitable for 30 mph. Cruising at 40 mph, fine. A lot depends on the gear ratios.
Remember too that a lot of vintage cars here had only three-speed boxes (and in the States, with more powerful engines, some cars were still available with 3-speed manual transmission as late as the early 1970s).
Yes, the limit was 60 mph for many years (and for a brief period during the fuel crisis in the 1970s it was 50 mph). I can't remember exactly when it was raised to 70 mph, but it was relatively recently -- 1980s I think.
I hope your sister hasn't discovered the folly of that the hard way!
AdamW said: