Essentially Dead Beko Fridge?

[JohnW2]

Obviously (the interior light), suggest the problem is something towards the mains input side of the fridge - failing mains cable, fuse, 13 amp plug/socket. ...

That's what one would think, but it's very hard to see how that could be intermittent in the fashion I'm experiencing.

Beyond that - I would be tapping into various points on the circuit, taking them out to a terminal strip for easy access, then a neon indicator or two would soon track down where it is failing.

Yes, that's what I'm going to have to do but, as I said, it's easier said than done - due to a problem of physical access and most of the connections being via insulated push-on connectors. However, as we've both said, if/when I can manage to do that, it should be child's play to at least determine what is happening electrically.

Kind Regards, John

 

[jj4091]

"and, in any event, find it hard to see how 'getting the connections to the thermostat wrong' could, in itself, affect the light."

I agree now that you have told us that turning the stat up/down did not turn the compressor on/off ( at least that is what I think you were saying ) but if you meant it did not turn it back on then having the light connected to the o/p would stop it illuminating if the stat did not close. Perhaps you need to swap the old one back to eliminate at least one of the faults.
Gut feeling is still the neutral breaking down somewhere.

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/essentially-dead-beko-fridge.575699/#ixzz72yLgbRqe

 

[JohnW2]

"and, in any event, find it hard to see how 'getting the connections to the thermostat wrong' could, in itself, affect the light." ... I agree now that you have told us that turning the stat up/down did not turn the compressor on/off ( at least that is what I think you were saying ) but if you meant it did not turn it back on then having the light connected to the o/p would stop it illuminating if the stat did not close.

Maybe I was not clear enough ...

Essentially, changing the setting of the stat changes nothing (but there may possibly be a development - see below!). If the compressor is in its off state (and light not working), then no amount of playing with the stat setting will cause the compressor (and light) to come back on. Similarly, if the compressor IS running (and light working when door is opened) turning the stat setting 'down' (set for higher temp) does not make the compressor stop (** but see below) - that didn't surprise me since I would not have expected that to happen even with the stat at its lowest ('warmest') setting, given the temps that the fridge is currently running at. If I turn the stat to its "off" position ("0" - which it goes to 'with a click'), the compressor stops, but the light continues working, but turning the stat back up (to colder temp) does not cause the compressor to immediately re-start (that usually happens a few minutes later).

** this may just be a coincidence, but the last time I tried turning the stat 'down' (to warmer temp) when the compressor was running (and light working), the compressor DID stop when I turned it down to the lowest (warmest) setting, but the light remained ON - confusing me even more.

Perhaps you need to swap the old one back to eliminate at least one of the faults.

Yes, that's on my list of things to try.

Gut feeling is still the neutral breaking down somewhere.

You may be right. I haven't yet had a chance, but my next step will probably be to try to get to grips with what is happening electrically - which, as Harry said, may well entail extending some of the relevant parts of the electrical circuitry to a more accessible place. Watch this space!

Kind Regards, John

 

[sxturbo]

One thinks you may have gone down the "rabbit hole" with this.

Had you been charging yourself by the hour as per a customer I imagine the time spent so far would be uneconomical.

I'm the mean time the fridge is essentially unusable as at the temperatures your stating your foodstuff must be going off rather quick.

Although it's commendable repairing it or at least trying,

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Essentially, changing the setting of the stat changes nothing (but there may possibly be a development - see below!). If the compressor is in its off state (and light not working), then no amount of playing with the stat setting will cause the compressor (and light) to come back on. Similarly, if the compressor IS running (and light working when door is opened) turning the stat setting 'down' (set for higher temp) does not make the compressor stop (** but see below) - that didn't surprise me since I would not have expected that to happen even with the stat at its lowest ('warmest') setting, given the temps that the fridge is currently running at. If I turn the stat to its "off" position ("0" - which it goes to 'with a click'), the compressor stops, but the light continues working, but turning the stat back up (to colder temp) does not cause the compressor to immediately re-start (that usually happens a few minutes later).

The stats on my fridges do not respond instantly, I assume there is some sort of built in delay on start and stop.

 

[JohnW2]

One thinks you may have gone down the "rabbit hole" with this. .... Had you been charging yourself by the hour as per a customer I imagine the time spent so far would be uneconomical.

Very much so, arithmetically. In fact, in my case it could be said to be even more crazy - at my "normal hourly rate" (which is considerably higher than that of 'a person who mends fridges') I could probably have bought several cheap fridges with the monetary value of my time so far expended.

However, that mathematical argument assumes that had I not been spending time on the fridge, I would have spent the time doing work 'chargeable at my hourly rate', which is not the case - all it has actually 'cost' me is the loss of "leisure time".

In any event, and more importantly, this has got far beyond an exercise in trying to mend the fridge. As I've said, it is a cheap and fairly old fridge, so I would not think twice before replacing it if it had simply 'stopped working'. However, it has now become an interesting and intriguing 'intellectual challenge' such that I would be very frustrated if I could not get to the bottom of at least some of it. I thought I 'was there', in as much as the problem (too high temp) persisted after I essentially replaced all of the electrical components without effect, seemingly leaving only the compressor and its circuit (e.g. 'lost gas') as an explanation - but this business with the light has added to the intrigue!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

The stats on my fridges do not respond instantly, I assume there is some sort of built in delay on start and stop.

It probably varies. I've just tried with a different fridge. If, whilst the compressor is running, I turn the stat 'down' (to a warmer temp) then, if I can get it low enough, the compressor stops 'immediately', and then re-starts 'immediately' if I turn the stat 'up'. However, there is appreciable hysteresis, in that, in order to get the compressor to re-start, I have to turn the stat up to higher than it originally was.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

In any event, and more importantly, this has got far beyond an exercise in trying to mend the fridge. As I've said, it is a cheap and fairly old fridge, so I would not think twice before replacing it if it had simply 'stopped working'. However, it has now become an interesting and intriguing 'intellectual challenge' such that I would be very frustrated if I could not get to the bottom of at least some of it. I thought I 'was there', in as much as the problem (too high temp) persisted after I essentially replaced all of the electrical components without effect, seemingly leaving only the compressor and its circuit (e.g. 'lost gas') as an explanation - but this business with the light has added to the intrigue!

That learning experience should never be under valued. I'm as interested in and want know what the problem is now, as much as you do.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It probably varies. I've just tried with a different fridge. If, whilst the compressor is running, I turn the stat 'down' (to a warmer temp) then, if I can get it low enough, the compressor stops 'immediately', and then re-starts 'immediately' if I turn the stat 'up'. However, there is appreciable hysteresis, in that, in order to get the compressor to re-start, I have to turn the stat up to higher than it originally was.

Which equates with my own findings, without actually ever having got involved with any fridge repairs.

 

[JohnW2]

Which equates with my own findings, without actually ever having got involved with any fridge repairs.

Not quite. As I said, with my ('other') fridge, there are no 'time delays' in response to changes of the thermostat setting (which is what you suggested), only 'hysteresis'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

An update, for anyone interested ...

'Touching wood', I think I now, at last, have a properly functioning fridge again. It seems that Murphy's Law was working quite well (never assume trhat unused replacement component are 'OK'!). To summarise the important bottom lines ...

The original thermostat was certainly malfunctioning and I suspect that was the (only) original problem (i.e. my replacing the start 'relay' and 'overload protector' was probably unnecessary). I'm not going to throw it out yet, since it's quite possible that it will respond to 'adjustment', as below.

However, the replacement thermostat (brand new, albeit 6 years ago, and unused) was drastically out of calibration - with it on its coldest setting, it was opening at 10°-11°. It is adjustable (very sensitive) and when I played around with that (a large adjustment was needed - a number of turns of the screw, not just a 'tweak') I eventually got it to roughly the temperature range I wanted (having, ironically, initially got the fridge 'far too cold'!).

It turns out that the 'interior light issue was a red herring, caused by an error on my part. Although I initially connected the replacement stat in exactly the same way as the original (and have photographic evidence to prove that!), at some point during my playing I somehow managed to get two of the connections (labelled "6" and "4" in diagram below) swapped around. Although this did not effect the thermostatic temperature control, as can be seen, it did ('correctly') result in the light being disabled when the (mis-calibrated) stat turned the compressor off. Below is a slightly modified version of the diagram I posted earlier in the thread, illustrating the situation as it exists in my fridge.

So, if it carries on working, I'm seemingly at long last back to having a working fridge without having suffered any cost (other than the loss of a lot of 'leisure time' ) beyond the investment in spares that I made 6 years ago (and, as above, I think only one of them was actually needed).

Kind Regards, John

 

[jj4091]

Sounds like they supplied you with a faulty stat., but a bit late to complain now. Never heard of one needing calibration before being installed.

 

[JohnW2]

Sounds like they supplied you with a faulty stat., but a bit late to complain now.

Quite so - and, indeed, I cannot even remember who I bought it from - it was, after all, about 6 years ago!

Never heard of one needing calibration before being installed.

Same here - and, as I said, it was "way out of calibration", not just 'slightly wrong'. Is it conceivable that it has somehow 'gone out of calibration' during those 6 years of storage (at ambient temp)?

Whatever, it's frustrating (and rather annoying), and involves a major 'co-incidence'. Since it seemed to be the most obvious culprit, and since I had a spare, replacing the thermostat (without bothering to test the old one) was the first thing I did. The 'co-incidence', which misled me and caused me to waste a lot of time, was that behaviour with the replacement stat was essentially identical to that with the old ('faulty') stat. That, coupled with the fact that I'd never heard of a new one being out of calibration resulted in my not even thinking of testing the new one but, rather, going down the path of progressively 'replacing everything else'!

Whatever, although it's been a tedious and time-consuming exercise, it has been 'interesting' ('lessons learned'!!) and satisfying to end up with a satisfactory conclusion - and I suppose I can pat myself on the back for having "saved a tree or two" for some time to come!

Thanks for your input into this saga!

Kind Regards, John

 

[jj4091]

It seems we have all learned something here & I am sure it will help others with fridge problems, similar posts often seem to come up on this section of the forum.
Adjusting a new stat. is not something I knew might be possible or need carrying out as I have never looked that closely at one.

 

[JohnW2]

It seems we have all learned something here & I am sure it will help others with fridge problems, similar posts often seem to come up on this section of the forum.

Indeed. In fact, the main lesson is one that, conceptually, I learned decades ago, but (I think understandably) did not heed in this case. It's far from the first occasion on which I have wasted a lot of time as a result of a brand new item being 'faulty' but on this occasion that did not seem to be something I needed to consider since, by 'co-incidence', behaviour of the fridge when I replaced the stat (with the 'faulty' one) was essentially identical to what it had been before the replacement. I therefore assumed that the stat had not been the problem, and hence went on to look for (and replace) other things.

Adjusting a new stat. is not something I knew might be possible or need carrying out as I have never looked that closely at one.

I knew that they were adjustable, but never had needed to do that, nor heard of anyone else who did, but I have never 'looked into it'. Having now educated myself a bit, it seems that the 'mechanical' (rather than electronic) ones are virtually all very similar (and very simple), offering two adjustments - one to adjust the temperature at which the contacts open with decreasing temp (which is the one I adjusted) and the other to adjust the hysteresis (i.e. to vary when the contacts re-close on increasing temp).

In fact, these 'mechanical' stats are so simple that I strongly suspect that many, maybe even most, of those that get replaced probably could simply have been re-adjusted. Unless the contacts get damaged or the capillary tube/bellows springs a leak, about all that is left is the adjustment/calibration. For a tradesperson (or anyone else whose 'time is effectively money'), it would probably not make financial sense, since fiddling with adjustment will almost certainly take a lot more time than a simple replacement. However, if money is not an issue (as I said, all it cost me was the loss of 'leisure time') then I suppose that adjusting a stat, rather than scrapping it, goes a little way to help 'save the planet'!

Kind Regards, John