You will find that if there is one single defining characteristic shared by all tradesmen in the UK it is an inability, verging on a perverse refusal, to think for themselves
Extractor fan need 3 amp fuse
- Thread starter spiderplant0
- Start date
Eh? I'm not missing anything.
I included the last couple of lines of Instruction (2) merely to indicate that it presumably is acknowledging that the product may be installed in a country other than the UK ..
... and then, as a totally different issue, Instruction (3) says that there must be a 3A fuse - so, as I asked, if someone outside of the UK (like yourself) were reading those instructions, how would they bee expected to implement the requirement for a 3A fuse in their country ?
Kind Regards, John
Exactly
Quite so.
Yes, and I believe that you really mean it - you are well know for such (sincerely held) views!
Kind Regards, John
That's even better - but, as I wrote, I was already assuming that, and only included a small bit of Instruction (2) to indicate the expectation that the instructions would/could be read by people outside of the UK (which, as I went on to say, makes practical nonsense of the subsequent 'requirement' for a '3A fuse').
Kind Regards, John
In a proportion of them, yes - but exactly the same is also seen in proportions of people other than 'tradesmen'.
Kind Regards, John
In reality I do not envisage the person responsible for re-issue under warranty would need proof that a 3A fuse was fitted anyway.
Nowadays the regs requires us to take MI into account rather than as previously follow them blindly.
So, providing you apply sound engineering judgement, I think it is OK.
I think that sound engineering judgement itself can only be obtained not just be the nature of experience/qualifications but by being reviewed by our peers too.
Personally, I think a 6A MCB is adequate.
Anyone of the opinion that if the L conductor is protected by a 3A fuse then the SL conductor should also be protected by the very same 3A fuse?
Nowadays the regs requires us to take MI into account rather than as previously follow them blindly.
So, providing you apply sound engineering judgement, I think it is OK.
I think that sound engineering judgement itself can only be obtained not just be the nature of experience/qualifications but by being reviewed by our peers too.
Personally, I think a 6A MCB is adequate.
Anyone of the opinion that if the L conductor is protected by a 3A fuse then the SL conductor should also be protected by the very same 3A fuse?
Yes but it says to follow local regulations as the instructions are written in English for the UK.
Not totally different; continuing their instructions for the UK.
Well, they wouldn't be reading them, would they?
Even if they were reading them, they would read the instruction to follow the local regulations and do so.
It would be interesting to know the instructions given for the same item in Europe.
Leaving aside the "fused spur" (surely that proves they don't know what they are talking about) - any competent person should immediately realise that by following the local regulations, even in the UK, neither local isolation nor a 3A fuse is required for a fan.
That raises the question of why a manufacturer would demand local isolation for a product in the first place.
What difference does that make to its working?
Cue the daftest of reasons that with no window you can repair it with the light on. Yeah right!
Surely, the so-called manufacturer's instructions are just "wot sumwun rote" thinking they were the UK regulations.
This is getting to be hard work
As I said, although the instruction are written in English, they contain the phrase "if outside UK" - which surely indicates that they acknowledge that the instructions may be read by, and 'implemented' by, someone outside of the UK, doesn't it?
(3) is a "totally different" instruction from (3), relating to "totally different" things, and nothing in (3) says that it is an instruction which only applies to the UK - that's surely the whole point of what I am saying.
If the instructions had not been written on the basis that they might be read by someone outside of the UK, why would they contain the phrase "if outside UK"?
Again as above, the reference to following local regulations i part of instruction (2). There is nothing in instruction (3) which indicates, or even suggests, that the 'requirements' of (3) don't apply (and one should, instead, follow relevant locally regulations)
I'm more than a little surprised that you appear to be 'defending' them!!
I see no claim that the explicit requirements of the instructions [e.g. Instruction (3)]have anything to do with regulatory requirements - that are simply ones that the manufacturer themselves are trying to impose, aren't they?
, in any country.(in addition
As above, I don't think so. They seem to be (themselves) requiring things in addition to the regulatory requirements of the country concerned- since they also say that "All wiring must comply with current I.E.E Regulations or local regulations if outside of UK"
Kind Regards, John
Don't give too much credence to other things written by someone who, in an official document, calls an FCU a fused spur.
There probably are no logical answers to your queries; it is just sumfin wot sumwun rote.
There probably are no logical answers to your queries; it is just sumfin wot sumwun rote.
I definitely don't - which is why I (and you) have a different view/approach from those who feel constrained/compelled/'advised' to obey every word of these daft documents.
I'm not sure that I have voiced any "queries" - all I ever really do in these discussions is give my personal view regarding the 'electrical common sense' consdierations.
Kind Regards, John
I've found some Xpelair MIs which come in 10 laguages (perhaps surprisingly, not including Spanish or Portugese). There is a single set of diagrams at the start (i.e. common to all languages), which inclues this one:
... note that it includes a 'DP isolator' and a "fuse" (on unspecified rating!).
That diagram is referred to in every language text, such as (in languages I know at least something about!) ...
... and even in Arabic,although I'm not certain as regards what it's saying about the diagram
) .......so, it would seem to be that if one is reading it in any of those 10 languages (most probably because one is in a country where it is the most common language), one is being told to include a DP isolator and a "Fuse" (of unspecified rating - although I have to wonder how one is expected to implement the latter (even after deciding which fuse to use!) in non-UK countries.
Kind Regards, John
Attachments
Does that not prove that MIs are unreliable and written by those who lack the knowledge to do it like the MK MIs written by the marketing department.
I have this from an Addvent PDF (but I don't know how to retrieve the link).
So, as I said, there are probably no answers.
I have this from an Addvent PDF (but I don't know how to retrieve the link).
So, as I said, there are probably no answers.
One would hope that would be the case, but one does hear stories about very silly attempts to wriggle out of warranty claims on the part of some companies.
All agreed.
So do I, sort-of
What I really think is that it no OPD, of any credible rating, stands much chance or preventing, or even reducing to a useful extent, the damage consequent upon a fault within the fan that results in an overcurrent high enough to cause the OPD to operate.I've already commented on that, and my answer (in terms of 'electrical common sense') was essentially 'no' - on the basis that the only two situations I could think of that would/could cause overcurrent in the S/L feed (a 'new path' from the S/L terminal 'appearing', or the input resistor "failing S/C") would both seem to be 'incredibly improbable'.
Kind Regards, John
Of course it does - but neither of us (nor many others) have suggested otherwise, have we?
The only reason we have to repeatedly re-visit this issue (and always come to the same conclusions) is that we continue to see (as we did in this thread) some people advocating/advising doing something simply "because the MIs 'require' it" - and seeming even if the MIs are daft, or even frankly 'wrong'.
Kind Regards, John