Help Neighbour is a nightmare

[lostinthelight]

How a out a google earth location so peeps can get a better idea??

 

[Captain Nemesis]

The op.said the plans which were made by the farmer and the architect and whoever else is involved, showed the drainage etc.

Yes, the plans re PP for the conversion of the barn to a dwelling.

Nothing to do with the plans of the property (the barn and the land) which they bought, and the conveying of the ownership of which was what the conveyancer did.

My friends have recently purchased a barn with planning to convert ex agricultural steel barn to home.
The problem is, on the plans the drainage system and soakaway are not within their curtilage.

Surely the only reason why the plans for a new building would be part of the conveyance would be if they were buying an actual new building off-plan?

One would expect that these plans or whatever the op called them would show boundaries and the drainage not in the land being sold.

The plans for the development would.

The plans of the property being purchased would not.

It really does look as if the people who bought the barn and its plot just did not twig that all they were buying was the barn and its plot.

I wonder if theyve thought about an elecricity supply....

At the very least it is a question the conveyancer's should perhaps ask as looking out for the best interests of there clients.

I wonder if there was ever anything formal, in writing, to say that the planning permission was part of the transaction?

As part of the documents the conveyancer would do, a drainage check is part of the standard searches pack.

Dont know if thats the case when buying a barn?

I'd probably feel the same if I was silly enough not to get a structural report done on a derelict barn and assumed the conveyancer would do their job correctly.

Im far from convinced that the conveyancer didnt do his job properly within the context of the plans describing the actual property being bought and sold in this transaction.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

They have been screwed not just by farmer, but also by architect
The architect was acting on behalf of the farmer, not the purchaser, the purchaser has NO contract with him

conveyancing solicitor who did not spot error or give correct and proper advice, If the purchaser has good title to the land and building then he has done his job correctly, he is not a builder and could not give advice on the 'plumbing' arrangements

Seems they have been royally screwed, no they have't, a survey was not undertaken, neither does it seem they approached a builder to guide them on the re-purposing of the barn.

I purchased a plot of land some thirty years ago...
Purchased the land after determining the boundaries, planning permissions, services, ie mains water, electricity, gas, surface drainage, foul water disposal and telecommunication (last one took time as no overhead wires allowed and no underground Virgin media at that time existed).
Plans drawn up - Architect
3 builders approached for building costs, then inspection of their previous house builds etc

Your friends were very naive to spend £200K using other peoples advice, and NO survey

 

[lostinthelight]

I know very little on planning matters but if planning was granted because it was shown there was adequate provision for drainage, it seems fraudulent if after sale that provision was withdrawn or conditions attached?

 

[Captain Nemesis]

How was it fraudulent?

They bought a barn and the plot it sat on. They did not buy the planning permission. I assume the PP remains valid, and they can build according to it, but if it that has always required infrastructure to be installed on other land which was not in the plot the barn sat on and which therefore they did not buy, then it is it not fraudulent for the owner of the other land to say "you have no right to install infrastructure on land which is mine, not yours".

Sharp practice, very possibly, but no fraud as far as I can see.

Whether a case can be made that their "conveyancing solicitor" was negligent would, I imagine, depend on what they were engaged to do, and to what extent access to other land owned by the vendor was documented in the sale. And would, I expect, be almost impossible to make.

 

[sxturbo]

They bought a barn and the plot it sat on. They did not buy the planning permission

The op said they bought it with the planning permission and plans.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

And they have the PP and the plans.

 

[Notch7]

They have no land with barn, apart from approx 3m around 3 sized

it sounds to me like the extra 0.2acre for £35k would make the barn plot far more attractive

That’s an extra 800 square metres -mind you it depends whether they would be able to get change of use - you can’t make a garden on agricultural land - although you can make a nice lawn and put in a hedge.

can’t they get a mortgage for the extra cost?


Could the conveyencing solicitors be sued for negligence?

 

[Captain Nemesis]

you can’t make a garden on agricultural land

Edible flowers? Theyd be a crop, wouldnt they?

 

[blup]

So you tell your solicitor you are buying an agricultural barn for conversion to residential, there are no rights for drainage etc on the deeds, and the solicitor doesn't include provisions for this in the transfer. Classic professional negligence on the face of it. Get a no win no fee firm to act for you.

Blup

 

[lostinthelight]

I would be inspecting the planning application details on the council planning portal to see under what terms the planning was granted.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Quote: That’s an extra 800 square metres -mind you it depends whether they would be able to get change of use - you can’t make a garden on agricultural land - although you can make a nice lawn and put in a hedge.

Not necessary correct, We purchased a small portion of a farmers field, at the rear of our garden, in common with other neighbours, The council instructed me to remove the hedge I planted on the new boundary and erect a 'stock proof fence' ie wooden posts and barbed wire, and also to hand cut the 'grass' twice a year with a scythe.... and finally a 'restriction on the use of land' served upon us. This was after applying for a change of use from farmers field to domestic garden.

 

[Notch7]

Quote: That’s an extra 800 square metres -mind you it depends whether they would be able to get change of use - you can’t make a garden on agricultural land - although you can make a nice lawn and put in a hedge.

Not necessary correct, We purchased a small portion of a farmers field, at the rear of our garden, in common with other neighbours, The council instructed me to remove the hedge I planted on the new boundary and erect a 'stock proof fence' ie wooden posts and barbed wire, and also to hand cut the 'grass' twice a year with a scythe.... and finally a 'restriction on the use of land' served upon us. This was after applying for a change of use from farmers field to domestic garden.

yes I’m not surprised - planners don’t like agricultural land being assimilated into domestic garden cartilage.

but planners never ever visit unless they get a complaint so becoming more garden than farmers field.

 

[Tricky-Dicky]

Hi Notch7, Your comments are correct, it was a neighbour who also adjoined the field that complained. A teacher married to a policeman who raised a written complaint that she could no longer let loose her dog into the field. I obtained a copy of the letter of complaint that you are allowed to see, after visiting the council. I did inform the council that the farmer had asked me if he knew whose dog it was, I did now, and told the council that the farmer had the right to shoot the dog, as it has been worrying his cows with young calves.

PS you can obtain planning permission on land that who do not own!
It happened at my former work place, when a doctors practice applied for planning consent to extend his car park onto the land that we owned at the rear of our premises. We did not object, as we had no use of the land. The price to be agreed later.

 

[Diver Fred]

Quote: That’s an extra 800 square metres -mind you it depends whether they would be able to get change of use - you can’t make a garden on agricultural land - although you can make a nice lawn and put in a hedge.

Not necessary correct, We purchased a small portion of a farmers field, at the rear of our garden, in common with other neighbours, The council instructed me to remove the hedge I planted on the new boundary and erect a 'stock proof fence' ie wooden posts and barbed wire, and also to hand cut the 'grass' twice a year with a scythe.... and finally a 'restriction on the use of land' served upon us. This was after applying for a change of use from farmers field to domestic garden.

What? Never heard of such a condition; can understand the requirements to have a post and barbed wire fence to support a hedge whilst it is growing. If it was a decorative hedge rather than stockproof (i.e. Thorn) then the fence would require being maintained. Sounds like someone (in the council) was trying to preserve amenity (access for dog walkers?).