Honeywell v4073a1039 motorised 3 port valve: should moving lever to manual allow flow?

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MrInteractive

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I have a Honeywell v4073a1039 3 port valve in my heating system and now the hot water and the central heating work intermittently, though banging the valve with my hand seems to bring it back to life, sometimes briefly sometimes until it switches off whereupon on starting again many hours later, it fails. Though now that does not seem to be working.

I am getting some strange gurgling noises too, seemingly from places other than the valve when it starts to function e.g. the top of hot water tank. It almost as though there is a blockage and when the

What worries me more, is that if I do move the manual lever to the open position, which I think is directly attached to the spindle of the valve mechanism, nothing seems to happen! The pipe going into the valve don't get hot, and pipes going to the central heating and the hot water do not get hot, and the boiler does not fire up. The pump is on and active throughout this and the pipes are throbbing, but I don't know how to tell if it is pumping water.

So the symptoms are
1) Left to its own devices with pump on and CH and HW on, nothing seems to be happening in terms of pipes near the valve getting hot
2) Sometimes if I bang the valve with my hand sometimes CH and HW start to work after some gurgling noises
3) Sometimes turning off the HW allows the CH to work, after some minor gurgling noises from the system
4) The manual lever of the valve offers no resistance with the power off and it does not return to the auto position when released, as it should. I have played with one of these valves in a shop and the resistance to movement is much greater and the valve does return to the auto position.
5) If I move the lever to manual open position, nothing happens, neither CH or HW pipes from valve become hot and boiler does not fire. Does this suggest that the valve mechanism is not opening?
6) The pipes exiting the boiler seem to be hot, and boiler fires up briefly when first switched on, but quickly switches itself off when presumably it has heated the water inside it. The pipes near the valve are all cold including the one from the boiler.
7) The pump is going all the time, trying to do something and the pipework is throbbing! But is it pumping water?


So I think the problems could be one of the following
1) The motor in the valve has failed ( but why doesn't the manual open cause flow and the boiler to fire up ? )
2) Some micro switches are required to work which have failed along with the motor, and they are required to work to indicate to boiler the valve has opened.
3) The valve mechanism is physically not allowing water to flow out of either outlet ( but surely this is impossible, one of the outlets HAS to be open as all the valve can do is to close one outlet ?)
4) The pump has failed, and is pretending to be working ( but then why does banging the valve cause everything to work sometimes ? )
5) I have some sort of blockage somewhere ( but why does banging on the valve sometimes work, or it used to )

And some questions
1) Is the manual lever directly connected to the spindle? If so if I move it to open position then water must flow and therefore the boiler should fire up as hot water leaves it.
2) Does water HAVE to flow into the CH or the HW system if the pump is working? If so, then one or other of the outlet pipes should be getting hot, but there are times when neither are getting hot and the boiler is not coming on, as though there is no water flow.
3) As I understand it there are some micro switches in the valve, if they are not operating correctly, does the boiler think that the valve has not opened and therefore does not fire up?
4) Should I just replace the motor in the valve, and see what that does?
5) What should I check on the valve? Should I be checking the micro switches
6) Should I be worried about the pump?
7) When the valve is working should the lever move over to the open position when it is doing HW or CH?

Thanks in advance for any analysis, hints, or information.
 
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MrInteractive said:
I have a Honeywell v4073a1039 3 port valve in my heating system and now the hot water and the central heating work intermittently, though banging the valve with my hand seems to bring it back to life, sometimes briefly sometimes until it switches off whereupon on starting again many hours later, it fails. Though now that does not seem to be working.

I am getting some strange gurgling noises too, seemingly from places other than the valve when it starts to function e.g. the top of hot water tank. It almost as though there is a blockage and when the

What worries me more, is that if I do move the manual lever to the open position, which I think is directly attached to the spindle of the valve mechanism, nothing seems to happen! The pipe going into the valve don't get hot, and pipes going to the central heating and the hot water do not get hot, and the boiler does not fire up. The pump is on and active throughout this and the pipes are throbbing, but I don't know how to tell if it is pumping water.

So the symptoms are
1) Left to its own devices with pump on and CH and HW on, nothing seems to be happening in terms of pipes neat the valve getting hot
2) Sometimes if I bang the valve with my hand sometimes CH and HW start to work after some gurgling noises
3) Sometimes turning off the HW allows the CH to work, after some minor gurgling noises from the system
4) The manual lever of the valve offers no resistance with the power off and it does not return to the auto position when released, as it should. I have played with one of these valves in a shop and the resistance to movement is much greater and the valve does return to the auto position.
5) If I move the lever to manual open position, nothing happens, neither CH or HW pipes from valve become hot and boiler does not fire. Does this suggest that the valve mechanism is not opening?
6) The pipes exiting the boiler seem to be hot, and boiler fires up briefly when first switched on, but quickly switches itself off when presumably it has heated the water inside it. The pipes near the valve are all cold including the one from the boiler.
7) The pump is going all the time, trying to do something and the pipework is throbbing! But is it pumping water?


So I think the problems could be one of the following
1) The motor in the valve has failed ( but why doesn't the manual open cause flow and the boiler to fire up ? )
2) Some micro switches are required to work which have failed along with the motor, and they are required to work to indicate to boiler the valve has opened.
3) The valve mechanism is physically not allowing water to flow out of either outlet ( but surely this is impossible, one of the outlets HAS to be open as all the valve can do is to close one outlet ?)
4) The pump has failed, and is pretending to be working ( but then why does banging the valve cause everything to work sometimes ? )
5) I have some sort of blockage somewhere ( but why does banging on the valve sometimes work, or it used to )

And some questions
1) Is the manual lever directly connected to the spindle? If so if I move it to open position then water must flow and therefore the boiler should fire up as hot water leaves it.
2) Does water HAVE to flow into the CH or the HW system if the pump is working? If so, then one or other of the outlet pipes should be getting hot, but there are times when neither are getting hot and the boiler is not coming on, as though there is no water flow.
3) As I understand it there are some micro switches in the valve, if they are not operating correctly, does the boiler think that the valve has not opened and therefore does not fire up?
4) Should I just replace the motor in the valve, and see what that does?
5) What should I check on the valve? Should I be checking the micro switches
6) Should I be worried about the pump?
7) When the valve is working should the lever move over to the open position when it is doing HW or CH?

Thanks in advance for any analysis, hints, or information.
Click to expand...


So many words typed out but little information provided,Get a tech in to fix it.
 
Here is the 3 port valve which I believe to be the main problem.

The manual lever is visible, and apparently it should offer resistance to being moved when the power is off, it does not, and it does not return to the auto position as it should.

310824_wl.jpg


Installation instructions
www.honeywelluk.com/documents/Installation-Guide/pdf/1083.pdf


The boiler is a Worcester Greenstar Ri 24kw

worcester-greenstar-24ri-1.jpg

This is not mine but the front is the same

Honeywell ST9400C programmer


https://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-st9400c-programmer/88608

51mO%2BuQcMHL._SX355_.jpg



User guide
www.honeywelluk.com/documents/User-Guide/pdf/871.pdf
 
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ericmark said:
The level only opens valve half way, it is there to allow bleeding of the system, it also does not work the micro switches, so unless opened electrically will not fire up the boiler.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for providing some relevant information. That is very useful to know.

If the boiler is switched on and the pump is on and CH and HW have been selected in the programmer and so the boiler is active, then are you saying that there must be some problem with the flow as if the flow were there, the boiler would switch ? And that therefore the pump is the problem


Can you tell me if the lever in the diagram is directly connected to the spindle which operates the ball which blocks off one outlet?

What do the micro switches do? If they are faulty what is the consequence? Are they there simply to inform the programmer that the valve has reached the position the programmer selected?
 
MrInteractive said:
Can you tell me if the lever in the diagram is directly connected to the spindle which operates the ball which blocks off one outlet?
Click to expand...
It isn't, no.

MrInteractive said:
What do the micro switches do? If they are faulty what is the consequence? Are they there simply to inform the programmer that the valve has reached the position the programmer selected?
Click to expand...
No, they switch the boiler and pump on when only CH is selected, and switch various resistors and diodes into the motor circuit to stall the motor in either the mid position or at the end of the CH position, and they also allow the motor to wind past the mid position to the CH only position.

MrInteractive said:
The manual lever is visible, and apparently it should offer resistance to being moved when the power is off, it does not, and it does not return to the auto position as it should.
Click to expand...
If CH is selected last the valve will stay in that position with the programmer off, it will not spring return except from the mid position, or if the power to the entire central heating system is switched off.

From your fault description I'd be looking at the pump first, but I'd recommend calling a heating engineer.
 
Echo the husky

Thank you so much for your informative reply. You seem to have absorbed the plethora of information I provided and are obviously well informed on these issues.

I have replaced pumps and drained my heating system before, so I would hope I was capable of getting to the bottom of this problem, and due to a bad back I am not awash with cash, so I would like to tackle this myself.

I can remove the pump if required, it has isolating valves. Is there an easy way to tell if it is in good condition and working?

One extra thing, before I turned the central heating on I didn't have a problem, so I thought the pump must be fine ( in case it isn't clear, my hot water and my central heating is pumped, hence the 3 way valve ) . And as banging the valve has relieved the problem previously, I presumed it was the problem.
 
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As Echo the husky says the micro switches inside the motorised valve do a lot, I came to repair my daughters and the diagram shows one micro switch, however in fact there are three, this causes some unexpected readings when trying to fault find, I was not sure it was the micro switch at fault, but took a chance and fitted a new valve and all then worked.
Y-Plan.jpg
 
Thank you oilhead for that positive suggestion.

When you say the actuator, do you mean the motor?

Are you aware that these valves, when not powered, should offer resistance to being moved into the manual open position, and that the manual lever should then return of its volition to the auto position? And if so, does this mean that I definitely have to replace the motor ( or the whole thing? )

I have yet to establish if the valve head ( the bit with the motor ) can be removed without having to drain the system. Apparently it is dependent on having a later model of the Honeywell valve. Two screws hold on the motor to the valve in the later models, and two others hold the plate to the valve body.

Is there a way of easily testing whether a pump is functioning properly? I can remove mine, it has isolating valves. As Echo said, the pump is a bit suspicious because

1) The boiler and pump are on, but NEITHER of the HW nor the CH pipes are becoming warm.

When I say the boiler is on, it will fire up but it doesn't do so for more than a few seconds when turned on, as though it is only heating water in the boiler and there is no water flow through it. Yet I can feel lots of throbbing near the pump, though not in the radiators, but could that because the valve is not in the CH on position, and refuses to go there.
 
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[QUOTE="MrInteractive, post: 4024692, member:

So the symptoms are

7) The pump is going all the time, trying to do something and the pipework is throbbing! But is it pumping water?






Thanks in advance for any analysis, hints, or information.[/QUOTE]
 
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Your point No7 in the Symptoms :
Remove the large silver disc in the centre of the pump.
Will get a small amount of water leaking but should only be a little.
Once removed, you might be able to see the pump spindle.
With your heating/ hot water being called, the pump spindle should spin.
 
75pete said:
Your point No7 in the Symptoms :
Remove the large silver disc in the centre of the pump.
Will get a small amount of water leaking but should only be a little.
Once removed, you might be able to see the pump spindle.
With your heating/ hot water being called, the pump spindle should spin.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much :)

I will try that. This throbbing that goes throughout the nearby pipework would suggest it is doing something, but it would seem that is not confirmation enough.
 
Thank you Ericmark for that informative post. I was looking at a similar version of the circuit diagram to establish exactly what the micro switches do, and it is not clear.
 
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