Hospa screw Vs ???

[Deleted member 174758]

What is your opinion of Confromat screws?

One-Piece Connector, with Ø 8 mm Head, for Ø 4 mm Drill Hole, Confirmat - Häfele U.K. Shop

Connectors Steel, with cross slot - order in the Häfele U.K. Shop.

www.hafele.co.uk

Over the years I have known guys that use them with the drill bit that does the clearance hole, counter sink and pilot hole at the same time.

TBH not a fan of Confirmat or Scan dowel fixings. Both have very intrusive fixing ends, and I prefer invisible fixings. In addition the Confirmats need a special stepped drill bit, which aren't the easiest things to source (limited number of suppliers). Both types are always visible, whereas even simple carcass screws can be sunk under and filled to hide them

TBH KD fittings (and for that matter pocket hole screws) are always weaker than glued joints made with hardwood dowels or Dominos. I'm in the fortunate position of having the use a couple of Domino jointers for carcases which produce very strong, rigid joints, but aren't sute solutions. In the past I have used both biscuits and dowels and whilst buscuits are quick and easy (if you own a jointer), they aren't yhe atrongest of joints, whereas dowel joints if done properly are both rigid and strong, but a bit of a faff to do. Of course the other downside of using any glued joint as opposed to KD (knock-down) fittings is that you do need to clamp the joint

On the odd occasion I've had to make-up a piece flat packed (so it could be manhandled through narrow doorways, up awkward stairs, etc then assembled in situ) I've gone with cam and dowel fixings which are easier to hide by locatint them on the upper face of the top/lower face of the bottom panels.

 

[Notch7]

What is your opinion of Confromat screws?

One-Piece Connector, with Ø 8 mm Head, for Ø 4 mm Drill Hole, Confirmat - Häfele U.K. Shop

Connectors Steel, with cross slot - order in the Häfele U.K. Shop.

www.hafele.co.uk

Over the years I have known guys that use them with the drill bit that does the clearance hole, counter sink and pilot hole at the same time.

Oh, and good to see you back. Respect.

I’ve used thousands of them

when running a joinery business we used confirmation screws to screw all the carcases together on wardrobes kitchens etc. We always used face frames and side cheeks so none were visible once the job was fitted

Hafele sell carcase clamps that hold panels at 90 degrees to each other - which work fantastic for confirmation screws


Their main disadvantage is the stepped drills get blunt reasonably quickly and then they are hard to drill

 

[Notch7]

I'll disagree with you on that point - Hospas are the go to in the kitchen trade simply because they can be driven straight into MFC withgout pre-piloting but with minimal damage, unlike cheap screws. They also come in BZP finish as standard. So no, any old screw isn't as good and many screws burr up or burst the melamine coating on carcasses.

The best alternative in terms of performance is probably the Reisser cutter (although they aren't quite as good IMHO), but with the caveat that getting those in BZP finish often isn't that easy, either. You can generally pick-up smaller quantities of Hospa screws from sellers on eBay, but as they are normally a kitchen trade supply, unless you have a kitchen component supplier locally who is willing to supply to non-trade, you will most likely be out of luck. In my experience Hospas aren't something a builders merchants or ironmongers stock, although I do have one trade ironmonger in Manchester who can get them to order next day (however, in trade box sizes)

Hospa screws have threads which are very thin so they bite really well without causing the hole to expand as they drive in.

personally I find on end grain of chipboard the secret is to pre drill and use a 4mm screw.

I hate it when you run your fingers down the inside of the carcase and feel a row bumps where the assembly screws have expanded the chipboard.

 

[opps]

TBH not a fan of Confirmat or Scan dowel fixings. Both have very intrusive fixing ends, and I prefer invisible fixings. In addition the Confirmats need a special stepped drill bit, which aren't the easiest things to source (limited number of suppliers). Both types are always visible, whereas even simple carcass screws can be sunk under and filled to hide them

TBH KD fittings (and for that matter pocket hole screws) are always weaker than glued joints made with hardwood dowels or Dominos. I'm in the fortunate position of having the use a couple of Domino jointers for carcases which produce very strong, rigid joints, but aren't sute solutions. In the past I have used both biscuits and dowels and whilst buscuits are quick and easy (if you own a jointer), they aren't yhe atrongest of joints, whereas dowel joints if done properly are both rigid and strong, but a bit of a faff to do. Of course the other downside of using any glued joint as opposed to KD (knock-down) fittings is that you do need to clamp the joint

On the odd occasion I've had to make-up a piece flat packed (so it could be manhandled through narrow doorways, up awkward stairs, etc then assembled in situ) I've gone with cam and dowel fixings which are easier to hide by locatint them on the upper face of the top/lower face of the bottom panels.

It goes without saying that I, after your post, I am suffering from tool envy. or is it jealousy? one means that you want it- the other means that you want to take ownership of the other person's item (read: covet it).

I would love a domino but cannot justify the cost, and accordingly still cling to my old Elu (plunge saw) biscuit joiner.

Apropos the visibility, the guys that use the confirmat screws, they only use then on bespoke units that have end panels (which will hide the fittings).

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I would love a domino but cannot justify the cost, and accordingly still cling to my old Elu (plunge saw) biscuit joiner. ,

It's a joinery thing, I suppose, and that's my bag, so to speak. I've tried all sorts of construction methods over the years, always looking for speed with accuracy. I started with dowels and went through Confirmats, Scan dowels, various cam/dowel KD fastenings, biscuits, etc before settling on Dominos. At one time I had a local-ish supplier called Woodfit in Chorley who stocked both Confirmats and Scan dowel fixings, including the drills and jigs, but when I got involved more with CNC manufacturing i found that glued fluted hardwood dowels were far cheaper and stronger for pre-assembled carcassing (faster too, if you have a dowel inserter - what we had was an apprentice, so meh...). We generally weren't doing flat pack, so Confirmats weren't needed, and when we did it was normally cam and dowel simply because the CNC could drill for them using standard off the peg tooling Ones of the things which kept me on biscuits for a long time (from the 1980s to late 1990s) was the Knapp Verbinder
biscuit jointing fasteners which includes KD, metal and other more esoteric types of fastener for use with BJ slots. Take a look. They used to have a distributor down in Kent, although that was a long time ago

Apropos the visibility, the guys that use the confirmat screws, they only use then on bespoke units that have end panels (which will hide the fittings).

Yes, but you could achieve the same thing with carcass screws without the need for a specialist drill or fastener. Quote common in shop fitting. BTW once 2 or 3 cabinets have been screwed together in a row they become rigid enough not to need anything more fancy than 40 or 50mm screws to hold them together. To my mind, though, the issue was always one of transport/handling - and ensuring your brand new carcase can withstand being taken to site, thrown around in the back of a carrier's truck, then humped into place by some knucklehead who isn't taiking care. Some carcass fastenings, such as pocket hole screws into MFC or veneered chipboard simply won't take any abuse like that

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I hate it when you run your fingers down the inside of the carcase and feel a row bumps where the assembly screws have expanded the chipboard.

That's just sloppy - possibly more down to using screws which are a tad long. One of my pet peeves is seeing splits in the edge/end grain (especially in MDF) caused by the screw hole(s) having not been adequately piloted