Hybid (not)

[ericmark]

Seem to remember drivers hours except for things like gritters, limited to 10 hours, so on a motorway we could expect to travel no more than 600 miles in a day, OK I have travelled from Oran to Annaba in a day with speeds of up to 100 MPH (US speedo) so around a 1000 miles in 1981, but could not do that today.

The main thing is recharging time, most of the points in Wales are either 22 kW or 7 kW, very few DC, and some cars can't charge at 22 kW even if plugged into a three phase charging point, so the larger the battery the longer it will take to charge, from internet

Lithium-ion battery capacity is measured in kWh (Kilowatt hours). The average capacity is around 40kWh, but some cars now have up to a 100 kWh capacity.

So between 2 and 14 hours to recharge from an AC supply.

Range also varies, but with the smaller battery not much more than 150 mile range, so if and this is a big if you can find three phase charging points, then 300 mile will need two charges, which mean not 10 hours but 8 hours as 2 hours used to recharge, so around 360 mile limit in a day due to time taken to charge twice.

We have seen this Christmas reports of people queueing to charge their cars, which means in real terms maximum distance is what one can do on one charge.

There were some hybrid cars with a small generator so it extended their range, think BMW made one, but these are it seems no longer made.

However electric transport is not new, we have been electrifying rail transport for years, it does have a huge advantage in that it does not really need to store power, there have been experiments with hybrid, but in the main better to change engines, Australia has been experimenting with rail buses, where in the country it runs on tyres, but in the city on rails, and it seems to lend itself to electric power.

So looking at things sensibly, we should not bother with road transport until all rail transport is electrified, as this could change the whole idea of transport, if you can drive a car to a rail link, then let the train take the strain for the long distance bit, it could even charge the car on the train, so you would only need a 100 mile range, home to rail link.

 

[flameport]

There were some hybrid cars with a small generator so it extended their range, think BMW made one, but these are it seems no longer made.

Not made now because very few bought them when they were available, and plenty of those who did regretted doing so as they never used the extender.

The main thing is recharging time,

So between 2 and 14 hours to recharge from an AC supply.

It's not a 'thing' at all. AC charge time is irrelevant. No one stands around at an AC charger waiting for hours or even minutes.
AC is used when the car is parked anyway, such as at work or at home.

EVs are not driven around until empty and then charged - that is how petrol and diesel cars are used. People who attempt such behaviour in an EV will be disappointed.
EVs are charged as and when possible, and how much is added is determined by how long they are parked at a particular location.
Doesn't matter whether 5%, 20% or 70% was added. What matters is that something was added.
For the vast majority of the time, EVs are not charged from empty, and they are not necessarily charged until full either.

Pretty much no EVs charge on 3 phase, and most won't charge at 22kW either. For most people this makes no difference to anything.

We have seen this Christmas reports of people queueing to charge their cars, which means in real terms maximum distance is what one can do on one charge.

Reports of a tiny number of Tesla drivers queuing up at a Tesla location because they can charge there for free, rather than driving a few minutes to another charging facility where they would have to pay.
It's the same mentality with petrol drivers queuing up when some media effort spouts about a 'shortage' of fuel, when a particular location is 1p less than another one or just because it's Friday afternoon at the supermarket and that's apparently the best time to queue up and buy petrol.

most of the points in Wales are either 22 kW or 7 kW, very few DC,

While there are less than in some other areas, Wales does have DC charging points, mostly in the major towns and cities where you would expect to find them.
More are certainly needed, but that applies to most everywhere else.

Purple are DC with one or more connectors.
Blue/purple also have AC at the same locations for those who will be parked there for longer periods.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

That's actually only about 1% (or something) of what will actually be required though isn't it?

 

[Avocet]

That's actually only about 1% (or something) of what will actually be required though isn't it?

For the most part, at present, it is sufficient for the number of EVs. However, I agree with Flameport, there's a sort of "herd" mentality which makes EV drivers still want to go to service stations to charge. Tebay (where one of the queuing stories stems from) is a special case, Southbound, it ONLY has Tesla chargers and Northbound, it as a few, quite old and very unreliable 50kW Gridserve chargers. That's nothing like good enough. In many paces, however, within half a mile of a motorway turnoff, you can find better, faster (and usually empty) chargers.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

For the most part, at present, it is sufficient for the number of EVs. However, I agree with Flameport, there's a sort of "herd" mentality which makes EV drivers still want to go to service stations to charge. Tebay (where one of the queuing stories stems from) is a special case, Southbound, it ONLY has Tesla chargers and Northbound, it as a few, quite old and very unreliable 50kW Gridserve chargers. That's nothing like good enough. In many paces, however, within half a mile of a motorway turnoff, you can find better, faster (and usually empty) chargers.

Sure but as we're inevitably ushered into EVs we'll need masses of more facilities?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

As StephenStephen says, it won't work, because the energy to turn the blades of your turbine, has come from the car's battery pushing it through the air in the first place. It would be a "something-for-nothing machine". The same could be said of putting (say) a bike dynamo against the tyre to generate electricity. The energy to turn it, has come from your car in the first place.

But if it could capture wind energy whilst the car is parked or stationary ? Then retract out of the drag when the vehicle is moving?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

But if it could capture wind energy whilst the car is parked or stationary ? Then retract out of the drag when the vehicle is moving?

Just how much have you had drink tonight?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Just how much have you had drink tonight?

A drop, but I will revisit the idea tomorrow.

 

[flameport]

Sure but as we're inevitably ushered into EVs we'll need masses of more facilities?

Yes. About 1500 rapid DC chargers were added last year, and 6700 AC ones.

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Far more are needed, and more are being installed all the time.

However the conversion of all vehicles to EV will take several decades even with rapid uptake of them.
Roughly 32 million cars in the UK, and about 2 million or so new ones sold every year.
Even with 100% of those 2 million every year being EV, that still 16 years to replace all existing cars, and that assumes 1 EV sold = 1 ICE car removed, which is not realistic at all.
At a 50% replacement rate, it's 30+ years.

Of course it's not desirable or even possible to replace 100% of existing cars, as there are already far too many vehicles on the roads.
The total number of cars must be reduced dramatically, but even with people getting rid of old cars and not replacing them (probably via various scrapping incentives), to get anywhere near a majority for electric, it's still 15-20 years at least.

A lot of the useless media seems to believe that the ban in 2030 means that all petrol and diesel cars will magically disappear - they won't.
Of the 32 million, less than 1 million are electric. The other 31+ million cars will take a very long time to get rid of.

 

[pcaouolte]

The other 31+ million cars will take a very long time to get rid of.

That depends on how the government decides to tax petrol and diesel. If they put enough tax on it they can price it out of existence very quickly.

 

[robinbanks]

Sure but as we're inevitably ushered into EVs we'll need masses of more facilities?

Do you think that a network of hundreds of thousands of fossil stations were built and stocked well in advance of fossil cars being introduced?

 

[robinbanks]

But if it could capture wind energy whilst the car is parked or stationary ? Then retract out of the drag when the vehicle is moving?

It could, but I think you're not considering just how little energy a turbine could capture for the short time that the car is parked. A Rutland FM910-4 (first one I found, no special reason) generates 155W in a 29knot wind. 155W against a 22,000W charger backed by a power station (that takes hours to charge a car)...


The turbine might not generate enough to even run one cycle of the turbine's foldaway retraction/deployment mechanism.

 

[flameport]

If they put enough tax on it they can price it out of existence very quickly.

Fuel price doesn't seem to have much or any effect on usage.
When fuel was ~£2 per litre, people certainly complained but still kept on buying it, even though it was 80p more than the price of only a year earlier.

Fuel is still far more than it was 18 months ago.. Very few complaints and people carry on buying regardless.
Plenty still park with the engine idling outside schools and elsewhere. The cost of it doesn't appear to matter to these people.

They way to get rid of old vehicles is to remove them from certain areas, such as is already done in London. Initially have a daily fine for non-compliant vehicles, expand the areas that are covered by those fines, and eventually ban certain vehicles from those zones completely.

 

[Mottie]

They way to get rid of old vehicles is to ………. Initially have a daily fine for non-compliant vehicles, expand the areas that are covered by those fines, and eventually ban certain vehicles from those zones completely.

It’s not a daily fine, it’s a daily charge. If/when they ban them, that will be a fine and you can bet it’ll be more than just a 'charge.

 

[Avocet]

But if it could capture wind energy whilst the car is parked or stationary ? Then retract out of the drag when the vehicle is moving?

Yes, possible, but I think impractical, somewhat dangerous, (and very noisy)! My car is currently doing about 3 miles to the kWh. So if I had a 1 kW turbine and I parked for an hour, it would put a grand total of 3 miles "into the tank". You could, of course, also cover the upward-facing surfaces with solar panels and get a tad more.