Intergas Eco RF vs HRE

Yeah that’s what hardwork is implying. Trvs still allow heat to pass when fully off.

We all know he’s a clown

Got to say one of my customers got himself a new carpet in the lounge when he decided the manual decorators cap on the Tower valves I used at the time and which I'd left him were not necessary when removing the rad for decorating. The room dropped below 5 degrees one night and the valve opened.

It's why I started fitting Honeywell's which have a positive shut off.
 
this thread is a disaster but to be fair in a large house TRVs are no substitute for a timed zone in terms of fuel cost

how many sensible people would go running around at all times of the day and night turning TRVs on and off?
 
When parts of the building were unoccupied they were not heated.

I was referring to the above. For example, one room doesn’t get used, TRV is ideal.

A full floor or zone I agree needs more efficient control. Not rocket science
 
this thread is a disaster but to be fair in a large house TRVs are no substitute for a timed zone in terms of fuel cost

how many sensible people would go running around at all times of the day and night turning TRVs on and off?
Exactly. It is amazing how many can't figure this out.
 
Exactly. It is amazing how many can't figure this out.
To be honest it's amazing how many can't figure out it's better to be nice to each other. We're all human beings, maybe this forum needs an empathy test before posting is allowed.
 
There are cases where the costs of running a new boiler are higher that the costs of running the old boiler.

Citation needed

I will ask for permission to quote.

Regret I was only given permission to post this meagre amount of information.


The test bed is 22 semi-detached houses, ( 11 identical pairs of 2 bedroom houses ) owned and maintained by a large industrial organisation for staff and long term visitor accommodation.

Gas , electricity and water are supplied to the houses by the organisation
Historically gas , electricity and water meters have been read monthly and this data is archived,.

Four houses were converted to un-vented DHW and sealed heating with pumps and valves gear external to the boiler.
Four houses were converted to combination boilers.
Fourteen houses retained the vented DHW and vented heating system
Four graphs of gas consumption during the 16 months after the conversions were produced ,
(1) Mean of 10 of the unconverted houses
(2) Mean of the other four unconverted houses
(3) Mean of the houses converted to un-vented DHW
(4) Mean of the houses converted to combination boiler

Analysis of the graphs
----------------------------

An analyst, un-aware that the graphs were of gas consumption, made the following observations
Graph (1) as requested was used as the benchmark for comparison with the other grpahs.
Graph (2) practically the same as the benchmark graph.
Graph (3) was similar to the benchmark graph, deviations ( per month ) from benchmark were between +1.5% and -5.2%
Graph (4) was similar to the benchmark graph, deviations ( per month ) from benchmark were between +7.8% and -4.6%
The highest deviations from the benchmark were in the summer months.

Residents Survey
--------------------
Residents in houses converted to un-vented DHW were generally satisfied with the new system.
Residents in two of the houses converted to combination boilers had since the conversion been using electric kettles for washing up water.

Possibly use of electricity for heating water.
-----------------------------------------------------

Graphs of gas and electricity consumption were produced for each of the houses converted to combination boilers. These graphs covered the 16 months of the trial and 16 months preceding the conversions These graphs demonstrated that after conversion two houses were using more gas per month in summer than the other two houses (B and D). The graphs of electricity used demonstrated houses B and D used slightly more electricity than houses A and C in the summer months.
When the analysts were made aware that the graphs were of gas and electricity consumption they expressed concern that factors such as cooking methods and life styles would reduce the validity of any conclusions drawn from the graphical data. The inference that DHW from a cylinder was prefereable to DHW from a combination boiler was however valid based on the data avaiable.
The opinions of the residents affected by the conversions were taken into account and the decision was made to convert all the houses to un-vented DHW.
 
Shame it is not complete as nothing s seen be assumed from that.

The assumption was that the new systems fitted into the 14 houses should be un-vented DHW

The +7.8% deviation from benchmark for combis during the summer months is ( to me ) a clear indication that combis use more gas in summer than a non combi. That figure of 7.8% deviation almost certainly needs to be adjusted because use of electric kettles in two of the four combi converted houses will have reduced the amount of gas used.
 
Indeed, but there are no comparative monetary values.

No one denies combis run less efficiently in hot water mode than in heating.

The debate, at least from my point of view is whether or not they're more cost effective than a traditional open vented system. We all no standing losses from an unvented is next to nothing.

Bet you were disappointed they didn't stick to open vented though eh? :lol:
 
Bernard, will you name what systems these have, as it would make it better. Boilers condensing, non-condensing, etc.
(1) Mean of 10 of the unconverted houses
(2) Mean of the other four unconverted houses
(3) Mean of the houses converted to un-vented DHW
(4) Mean of the houses converted to combination boiler

Editing the post would be best.
 
The debate, at least from my point of view is whether or not they're more cost effective than a traditional open vented system.

Overall annual running cost of an unvented is higher than that of a vented system when essential G3 service costs are included. The cost of gas consumed is probably about the same.

Bet you were disappointed they didn't stick to open vented though eh?

I assume they had good reasons for opting for a unvented DHW system. Maybe higher DHW flow rates with existing small diameter pipes and/or concerns about quality of stored cold water influenced the decision.
 
You do not have to mention manufactures. That is not the point, just put in what systems they had.
 
"Residents in two of the houses converted to combination boilers had since the conversion been using electric kettles for washing up water."​
Bernard why were they doing this? If the draw-off from a combi is lagged there is no problem with DHW delivery, unless there is a long dead-leg.
 
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