Just how safe are EVs?

[Avocet]

I don't know the details of lithium fires etc, but I do feel that currently we are not ready for this.
Mainly due to the wastage of energy, and unregulated lithium mining.

I would be happy to read proof that a car such as my low emission, Ford Focus Eco Zetec (or something like that) is more damaging to the environment than a battery car that needs charging from a national grid that still uses huge amounts of gas, and needs batteries that are being ripped out of the ground causing loads of pollution.

I honestly think it makes sense in big cities to push for electric, as it is only in urban areas where pollution is a problem. But much of that pollution is older vehicles anyway. If somebody is driving long distances up and down the M6 every day, for example, I really don't think the emissions problem is the big issue.

This is the best study I've been able to find, to date. It's good because it's essentially the same car, but with either and ICE or an electric powertrain, so that direct comparisons can be more easily made. It's a bit old now (2018) and I know the UK's grid carbon intensity has fallen significantly since then, so that just strengthens the environmental case for EVs further:

https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/applications/pdpspecificationpage/my24/xc40-electric/pdp/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf

Obviously, it varies by country. The USA still produces a lot of its electricity from coal, so an EV would take longer to "break even" over there, but in the UK, I think it's fair to say that now, a typical EV will "break even" (i.e. where its in-use CO2 savings pay off its increased manufacturing CO2) in about 40,000 miles. Every mile after that, leaves it lower CO2 than its ICE counterpart. Obviously, as the grid decarbonises further, that difference just gets bigger.

 

[Justin Passing]

I've only seen bits of info, of dubious veracity. There are several aspects which give me concern, or would if I were younger. Conditions for the workers in eg Africa is a big one, though there are many mines in Oz, Canada etc now.

 

[Avocet]

For me it was strange to find out that Tesla was considered the safest car both in the USA and in Europe. It is a relatively young company compared to say BMW or Audi but somehow thay manage to top different ratings of the safest cars. Incomprehensibly.

I'd take that with a slight pinch of salt, to be honest. They're talking about the EuroNCAP safety tests, which are a particular set of tests. Like just about any scheme that has performance-related brownie points, those who participate, get very good at "gaming" the system. In other words, teachers get very good at getting classes good GCSE and A-level results. GPs make it so that nobody waits more than a day for an appointment, by only offering "on-the-day" appointments. I'm sure the police do the same with crime statistics... (and so on). The car manufacturers are no different. They were famous for "gaming" the official fuel consumption and CO2 emissions tests. They optimise the cars to do well in the EuroNCAP tests - which is fine, as long as you'e planning on having a EuroNCAP accident!

Of course, it's a constant game with the regulators, who get wise to how the manufacturers are manipulating the system, and the try to change the tests to stop them. For example, there's no full-vehicle rear impact test in EuroNCAP, only a test on the vehicle seats for whiplash.

That's not to say that the Teslas aren't safe! They do very well in the tests, but personally, I'd be pretty happy with pretty much anything with a 4 or more star rating.

 

[Avocet]

I've only seen bits of info, of dubious veracity. There are several aspects which give me concern, or would if I were younger. Conditions for the workers in eg Africa is a big one, though there are many mines in Oz, Canada etc now.

The raw material extraction problem, are a failure of regulation in the countries where it happens, rather than anything to do with the car industry. Cobalt, for example, has come in for a lot of bad press because most of it comes from the Congo, and some of it is artisanally-mined by families (including children). However, cobalt is used by oil refineries in the refining o petrol and diesel. For years, the petrochemical industry was one of the world's biggest users of the stuff, and nobody turned a hair. "Big oil" is putting up quite a big (and dirty) fight - because obviously, it sees EVs as a big threat to its core business. It's up to us, how we handle the information being put out there...

Child labour is by no means unique to the cobalt industry either.