Light Sphere, is that the new name to replace light bulb?

[JohnW2]

There are no non-metric indications on pre-packaged goods sold in Australia -....

Not so much a 'weights & measures' issue as a 'scales' one, but I've been looking at Bunnings website and find many exceptions to some of the things you've been saying about goods in Australia. For example, we have here a measuring tape described as "3m/10ft", is dual-scale (Imperial and metric, and has its metric markings in cm, not mm - all of which seem contrary to what you've been saying:

except on some US Imported products where the metric quantities have been included in the US packaging or have been added.

Hardly anyone in Australia drinks Fosters beer. (Made by Carlton, Melbourne)

Interesting. Most of the Fosters sold in UK appears to be brewed by Heineken in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Australian beer is (generally) sold in 750 ml bottles or 375 ml Cans - or bottles.

Not very 'preferred metric', and seemingly somewhat out of line with beer in most parts of the world.

Regulations require that the stated size of all pre-packaged goods be rounded down to the nearest 5 ml (or 5 g) - to avoid "confusing numbers".
Hence "454 g (1 pound) or 568 mL (1 pint) " would not be permitted. ... It would have to be 450 g or 565 ml - unless there was actually more, to make it 455 g or 570 ml.

I would think it's a bit of an insult to the intelligence of Australian peoiple to suggest that they would be 'confused' by final digits other than 0 and 5 ! I'm not sure if you're talking only of food and drink etc. bvut, if not, looking again at Bunnings I find things like this...

That clearly is an 'Imperial' 8 feet x 4 feet ( 2,438.4 mm x 1,219.2 mm ) board, which has been marked with metric equivalents, one rounded down to the nearest mm (no nearest 5mm) and the other rounder up to a figure which happens to be the nearer 5mm. That doesn't seem to fit too well with what you've suggested.

Apart from South Australia, any Hotel Beer Quantity called a "Pint" must be 570 ml (rounded UP)

I'm surprised they are allowed to call it "a pint" However, are you saying that it has to contain 570 mL of beer, or that it nay be 568 mL (but has to 'said to be'/labelled 570 mL)??

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But even our voltage, there were labels when I started 440 volt, I never remember it at 250 single and 440 three-phase, but later we started to get 415 volt labels,

I only remember 240v/415v.

now 400 volt,

Mmm - and they get away with selling their unsuited to our 240v tat, here, and it don't last long if it's voltage sensitive.

 

[FrodoOne]

Not so much a 'weights & measures' issue as a 'scales' one, but I've been looking at Bunnings website and find many exceptions to some of the things you've been saying about goods in Australia. For example, we have here a measuring tape described as "3m/10ft", is dual-scale (Imperial and metric, and has its metric markings in cm, not mm - all of which seem contrary to what you've been saying:

While I wrote "goods", it was in the context of "Beer" (and , by extension "Food") - Millilitres and Grams (I dd not mention Millimetres.)
What I should have written was Pre-Packaged "Food" Items".
At one point (about 50 years ago) there was a "suggestion" to ban the sale of dual scale measuring devices because of the previously quoted Standard AS 1155-1974
"Metric Units for Use in the Construction Industry", which stated:
"The metric units for linear measurement in building and construction will be the metre (m) and the millimetre (mm), with the kilometre (km) being used where required. This will apply to all sectors of the industry, and the centimetre (cm) shall not be used. … the centimetre should not be used in any calculation and it should never be written down"

Not very 'preferred metric', and seemingly somewhat out of line with beer in most parts of the world.

750 ml is the size of the "French" (and Australian) wine bottle and was the size of the Australian Beer Bottle pre Metrication - although those bottles were referred to as containing 26 Fluid Ounces - while it was actually 26.4 Fluid Ounces, if completely filled !

I would think it's a bit of an insult to the intelligence of Australian peoiple to suggest that they would be 'confused' by final digits other than 0 and 5 ! I'm not sure if you're talking only of food and drink etc. bvut, if not, looking again at Bunnings I find things like this...

(As in your post #79)

That clearly is an 'Imperial' 8 feet x 4 feet ( 2,438.4 mm x 1,219.2 mm ) board, which has been marked with metric equivalents, one rounded down to the nearest mm (no nearest 5mm) and the other rounder up to a figure which happens to be the nearer 5mm. That doesn't seem to fit too well with what you've suggested.

Fairly obviously, the equipment that made such panels pre-metrication is still making them - in both countries - and a "hard conversion" has been made.
(You will also find similar references to "hard conversions" in Plywood from Bunnings.)

Again, my reference was actually to Pre Packaged "Food" Products (Milliletres and Grams).
I did not mention "Length" (Millimetres)

With Plumbing Products, since "new" must fit "old" (obviously), a "soft conversion" was made and 1/2", 3/4", 1" (etc.) pipe is now referred to as 12 mm, 20 mm, 25 mm etc. although it is not those exact dimensions.
However, Bunnings seems to be a little "Mixed Up".
If you look at "Copper Pipe" (https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=copper+pipe&sort=BoostOrder )
you will find pipe specified in Imperial diameter but Metric length with the "fittings" specified in Metric (diameter).

Another "soft conversion" which took place at metrication was again "no conversion at all".
In the 1930s, Australia adopted a "out of patent" US design as the basis of the Australian Electrical Socket and Plug.
At the same time, the US "mounting hardware" sizes and the screws' used to mount the items concerned were also adopted.
These screws were/are US 6-32 screws (like these https://www.amazon.com.au/TOYMIS-10...ectrical+Outlet+Screws&qid=1721094172&sr=8-14 )
In Australia (and New Zealand), similar screws are still used today (https://detaelectrical.com.au/product/deta-mounting-screws-50mm-10pk/ )
The same thing re-designated!

I'm surprised they are allowed to call it "a pint" However, are you saying that it has to contain 570 mL of beer, or that it nay be 568 mL (but has to 'said to be'/labelled 570 mL)??

The marking on the glassware indicates 570 ml.
Hence, it should not contain less, if filled to that point.
Obviously, the quantity received is unlikely to be entirely accurate - just as you are unlikely to get exactly ONE PINT in a UK "Pub".

The point of these Australian "regulations" is that the customer should not get "less" than the advertised quantities of food and drink, although he/she may receive very slightly "more".

 

[ericmark]

I only remember 240v/415v.

To be frank, I only remember the grid supply being 415 at highest, but we had loads of labels saying "Danger 440 volt" So in the UK with a central supply I remember 110 volts DC (Llwyngwril) 380/220 Europe, 110–0 -110 Alger's, 120-0-120 Woodbridge US base, 415/240 pre harmonisation, and 400/230 post harmonisation.

I know on the building of Sizewell B we had auto transformers for the tower cranes to step down to 380 volts, but that was due to the A station being so close, also had problems with 110 volt fluorescent fittings, lucky they used auto transformers to step up, so swapped from 110 to 127 volt tapping.

At one point, a company based in Capenhurst was making special consumer units with an auto transformer built in, and auto switching to drop voltage and so reduce power used, and from my experience with fluorescent lights, I can see the point with fluorescent lights before we used electronic ballasts, but very little else, and it dropped the voltage for the whole output not just the lighting supply.

I noted in North Wales when we went to 230 volts, put a meter on the supply, and it would show 240 to 245 volts, until a load of bungalows had solar panels fitted, and then the voltage dropped to 230 volts. And my old 65 watt fluorescent stopped working. Today here in Mid-Wales

and not seen it go over the 253 volts, but that is well over 230 volts, and my export is only 167 watts. Don't think, ever seen at 230 volts. If it were not for the solar I would not be checking the voltage, but tend on dull days to check to see if washing machines etc, need switching on.

I have other than fluorescent only had two items where volt drop caused a problem, a shrink wrap machine, and AC units. Low voltage on the AC units caused the overloads to burn out, as the pressure would raise before the motor got to full speed, and would stall the motor, the overload would then trip, and they did not like being repeatedly tripped.

I note most freezers say don't use extension leads, but it still says it on my inverter drive freezer, and unlikely the 3 phase motor will ever stall. It does seem manufacturers have some one write out a manual, but they cut and paste a load of info, and it often does not relate to the new model.

 

[JohnW2]

While I wrote "goods", it was in the context of "Beer" (and , by extension "Food") - Millilitres and Grams (I dd not mention Millimetres.)
What I should have written was Pre-Packaged "Food" Items".

Fair enough, but that doesn't alter the fact that the situation regarding distance/length measuring devices in Australia does not seem anything like as straightforward as you previously suggested, if Bunnings is selling (in Australia) a measuring tape described/labelled (partially) as "10 feet", which has dual (Imperial/metric) scales ("evil") and has the metric scale marked in cm ("which should not be used").

With Plumbing Products, since "new" must fit "old" (obviously), a "soft conversion" was made and 1/2", 3/4", 1" (etc.) pipe is now referred to as 12 mm, 20 mm, 25 mm etc. although it is not those exact dimensions.

The situation with plumbing products is very messy, and very different in our two countries.

In the UK, the Imperial versions of copper pipe had internal diameters of 1/2", 3/4" and 1" (etc.), with corresponding fittings. However, they have been replaced with metric pipe which have external diameters of 15 mm, 22mm and 28mm (etc.),and with a different wall thickness from the Imperial pipe. As a result, the outside diameters of those three sizes of metric pipe are very close to the outside diameters of the Imperial pipe they replaced, to the extent that, in some cases, the same fittings can be used for both Imperial and metric (e.g. 1/2" & 15mm pipe).

However, Bunnings seems to be a little "Mixed Up".
If you look at "Copper Pipe" (https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=copper+pipe&sort=BoostOrder )
you will find pipe specified in Imperial diameter but Metric length with the "fittings" specified in Metric (diameter).

That does sound like a total mess - and we certainly don't see anything like that over here. Do I take it that it is actually 'metric' pipe (it is described as halving a diameter of 12.7 mm, but doesn't say whether that is OD or ID), despite the 1/2" description ?
I'm also pretty amazed to see that they're selling the pipe in 6 metre lengths - how on earth do people transport that?

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm also pretty amazed to see that they're selling the pipe in 6 metre lengths - how on earth do people transport that?

carefully

A couple of years ago I was in the wickes/Lidl carpark and a 3m length of waste pipe had been loaded into a small hatchback; touching the rear screen and poking out of the passenger window. At the exit the pipe hit the end of the gate:

which seems to stick out more than it shows in streetview.

She was more concerned about the £5 broken pipe than the shattered glass.


I wish I could get guttering in 6m lengths, years ago a neighbour worked at a manufacturer, when fitting guttering he helped me measure up, not only did he bring lengths to not require joints, they were cut to the exact lengths. They would have been ~ 3@8m & 1@15m

 

[FrodoOne]

Fair enough, but that doesn't alter the fact that the situation regarding distance/length measuring devices in Australia does not seem anything like as straightforward as you previously suggested, if Bunnings is selling (in Australia) a measuring tape described/labelled (partially) as "10 feet", which has dual (Imperial/metric) scales ("evil") and has the metric scale marked in cm ("which should not be used").

I would suggest that "real tradesmen" do not buy such devices, since they need only the Millimetre Tapes.

The situation with plumbing products is very messy, and very different in our two countries.

In the UK, the Imperial versions of copper pipe had internal diameters of 1/2", 3/4" and 1" (etc.), with corresponding fittings. However, they have been replaced with metric pipe which have external diameters of 15 mm, 22mm and 28mm (etc.),and with a different wall thickness from the Imperial pipe. As a result, the outside diameters of those three sizes of metric pipe are very close to the outside diameters of the Imperial pipe they replaced, to the extent that, in some cases, the same fittings can be used for both Imperial and metric (e.g. 1/2" & 15mm pipe).

Copper pipe had external dimensions of 1/2", 3/4" and 1" (etc.)
Galvanized Iron pipe had internal dimensions of 1", 1 1/4" 1 1/2" etc.

That does sound like a total mess - and we certainly don't see anything like that over here. Do I take it that it is actually 'metric' pipe (it is described as halving a diameter of 12.7 mm, but doesn't say whether that is OD or ID), despite the 1/2" description ?
I'm also pretty amazed to see that they're selling the pipe in 6 metre lengths - how on earth do people transport that?

Not really, All the plastic piping and conduit ( Often, 4 metre length) is dimensioned in Metric
https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=pipe&sort=BoostOrder
https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=conduit&sort=BoostOrder

I'm also pretty amazed to see that they're selling the pipe in 6 metre lengths - how on earth do people transport that?

Plumbers usually have "Trucks", with overhead racks - as do Electricians.
Annealed Copper coils are also sold - up to 18 m

https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=annealed&sort=BoostOrder

 

[ericmark]

I did find a problem with plastic pipe, 40 mm pipes for glued fittings was a different size to 40 mm pipe for push fit fittings. And as to 20 and 25 mm conduit, in plastic it varies so much, some you can insert a spring, and it bends a treat, then you get another one, and it kinks, seems due to wall thickness, you only realise it is the pipe, and not you're doing something wrong, when you are doing it every day, and you get a bad batch.

But this is not really down to going metric.

It is, however, down to labels, which is what the thread is about, we buy it as 20, 25, 40 or what ever mm, but there is little to say what this refers to.

I buy a pack of rechargeable batteries labelled 1000 mAh 1.2 V precharged. Buy a pack of primary cells, lucky to give voltage, nothing about how much energy in them, it says zinc and Pb why it has lead in it not a clue, address in London, and disposal instructions in French, KODAC AA battery cell.

Internet hunt gets "Primary cells majorly have three main types, which are alkaline cells, lead-acid cells, Ni-Cd batteries, Ni-MH batteries, and LI-Po batteries." really, I have never seen a lead acid primary cell. And I would say most primary cells are alkaline. They have claims, like live longer, but it does not explain if this is they store for longer, they have more capacity, or they simply will not disintegrate.

Select an AA cell and even the voltage varies from 1.2 volt to 3.6 volt.

 

[JohnW2]

I would suggest that "real tradesmen" do not buy such devices, since they need only the Millimetre Tapes.

I have no idea who buys them. You previously seemed to imply that ("evil") dual-scale measuring devices and cm-marked one were 'not available' (widely, or maybe at all) in Australia, but both seem to be pretty widely available.

Copper pipe had external dimensions of 1/2", 3/4" and 1" (etc.)

Maybe in Australia. As I said, in the UK the Imperial sizes of copper pipe referred to internal dimensions. Were that not the case, 15mm pipe would have a much larger OD than 1/2" (and 22 mm much larger than 3/4", etc.) whereas, as I've said, they are actually virtually identical.

Galvanized Iron pipe had internal dimensions of 1", 1 1/4" 1 1/2" etc.

Indeed - and it still does. If the discussion were to move to things like BSP threads, the confusion would get even greater

Plumbers usually have "Trucks", with overhead racks - as do Electricians.

Plumbers, electricians and other tradespeople obviously have vehicles but, in the UK, very very few 'ordinary' ones will have vehicles big enough to comfortably carry 6m lengths of rigid pipe.

 

[SUNRAY]

I have no idea who buys them. You previously seemed to imply that ("evil") dual-scale measuring devices and cm-marked one were 'not available' (widely, or maybe at all) in Australia, but both seem to be pretty widely available.

Maybe in Australia. As I said, in the UK the Imperial sizes of copper pipe referred to internal dimensions. Were that not the case, 15mm pipe would have a much larger OD than 1/2" (and 22 mm much larger than 3/4", etc.) whereas, as I've said, they are actually virtually identical.

Indeed - and it still does. If the discussion were to move to things like BSP threads, the confusion would get even greater

Plumbers, electricians and other tradespeople obviously have vehicles but, in the UK, very very few 'ordinary' ones will have vehicles big enough to comfortably carry 6m lengths of rigid pipe.

I have carried 10ft/3m scafold poles for years, either inside larger vans or on the roof of smaller vehicles, as such my roofbars are 2 scaff poles across the roof and use these clamps

to attatch the poles. I have regularly carried 20 or 21ft scaff poles and sometimes used some that length to transport other long items, such as 5m lengths of plastic facia/sofit etc
These curtain tracks

were just under 6m and simply tied on to the roofbars with these

to move them to a different site

lighting bars (scaffold bars internally wired to sockets spaced along them) were clamped as the poles above to move from here

to here

I only have a Peugeot Partner so yes there is overhang, usually only the rear but kitting up well makes the job very stress free.


Just realised this will be post#100

 

[JohnW2]

I have carried 10ft/3m scafold poles for years, either inside larger vans or on the roof of smaller vehicles, as such my roofbars are 2 scaff poles across the roof and use these clamps to attatch the poles.

Yes, I think most UK tradesmen can (and do, all the time) manage that. I can even transport 3m inside the much larger of our two family cars., However ...

I have regularly carried 20 or 21ft scaff poles and sometimes used some that length to transport other long items, such as 5m lengths of plastic facia/sofit etc

That would seem to be 'pushing things' a bit, but I guess achievable with a big enough vehicle.

... but none of this alters the fact that I don't think I've ever seen rigid copper pipe in the UK sold in 6m lengths (probably never more than 3m).

 

[SUNRAY]

Yes, I think most UK tradesmen can (and do, all the time) manage that. I can even transport 3m inside the much larger of our two family cars., However ...

That would seem to be 'pushing things' a bit, but I guess achievable with a big enough vehicle.

... but none of this alters the fact that I don't think I've ever seen rigid copper pipe in the UK sold in 6m lengths (probably never more than 3m).

Metal conduit and copper pipe used to be sold a little longer and never fitted in a car, certainly not in my Maxi when I installed our central heating but 10ft poles just did. It was only very recently I used an old 25mm conduit which I'd have to say was more like 3.8m, still nowhere near the 6m though.

EDIT A quick google comes up with several references to conduit being 3.75m and 12ft and split tube being 13ft

 

[JohnW2]

Metal conduit and copper pipe used to be sold a little longer ...

I've seen conduit slightly (but only slightly) longer than 3m, but ca't recall copper pipe more than 3m. I forget, but imagine that Imperial copper pipe probably came in 10 ft lengths?

and never fitted in a car, certainly not in my Maxi when I installed our central heating but 10ft poles just did....

I have ('shared' use of a Chrysler Voyager 'car' (feels more like a van to me ) and I can get about 3.2m inside that - and, of course, at least that much on the roof - but I certainly would not attempt 6m!

EDIT A quick google comes up with several references to conduit being 3.75m and 12ft and split tube being 13ft

That would presumably go on top of most car/vans, but 6m would be a very different kettle of fish

 

[SUNRAY]

I've seen conduit slightly (but only slightly) longer than 3m, but ca't recall copper pipe more than 3m. I forget, but imagine that Imperial copper pipe probably came in 10 ft lengths?

As I said lengths of copper pipe weren't anywhere near fitting in my Maxi, in 1970's I installed 3 heating systems with fairly regular visits to suppliers so got very accustomed to making it fit. However 10ft scaff poles fitted with ease.

I have ('shared' use of a Chrysler Voyager 'car' (feels more like a van to me ) and I can get about 3.2m inside that - and, of course, at least that much on the roof - but I certainly would not attempt 6m!

That would presumably go on top of most car/vans, but 6m would be a very different kettle of fish

My vehicle is ~4.5m long, roofbars are 1.6m apart and 2.3m from the front of the vehicle leaving 2.1m to overhang the rear bar or 1.6 past rear bumper. 21ft scaff tubes (6.4m) are incredibly stable when clamped on and travel as good as gold. A single does tend to shake a little, If I have more than one I'll set them at slightly different overhangs and strap together to take out any resonances. As I said before when it's all adequately kitted out such a load is a breeze. 6m of copper pipe would require additional support (such as strapped to a scaff pole).

 

[JohnW2]

As I said lengths of copper pipe weren't anywhere near fitting in my Maxi, in 1970's I installed 3 heating systems with fairly regular visits to suppliers so got very accustomed to making it fit. However 10ft scaff poles fitted with ease.

Yes, I didn't read that properly. Interesting. 10 feet is a little over 3m, so I presume the copper pipes you had were appreciably over 3m.

The first plumbing I did would have been in the late 70s, and I'm not sure whether that was with Imperialot metric pipe. However, I did little then, so would probably only have been buying 2m / 6 feet lengths back then, anyway.

My vehicle is ~4.5m long, roofbars are 1.6m apart and 2.3m from the front of the vehicle leaving 2.1m to overhang the rear bar or 1.6 past rear bumper. 21ft scaff tubes (6.4m) are incredibly stable when clamped on and travel as good as gold. A single does tend to shake a little, If I have more than one I'll set them at slightly different overhangs and strap together to take out any resonances. As I said before when it's all adequately kitted out such a load is a breeze. 6m of copper pipe would require additional support (such as strapped to a scaff pole).

Fair enough. However, that doesn't alter the fact that I don't think I've ever seen 6m lengths of metric rigid copper pipe being sold in UK.