Loft Conversion - Advice

[DM7]

Hello,

Someone has asked me to give them a quotation on converting their loft into a storage space, with the future intention of further conversion work i.e., they may later make the loft into a dormer conversion.

For now, they asked me to give them a quotation for installing the floorboards, with insulation drywall on the roof.

The things I am not sure about are:


1. Whether or not the joist would need to be reinforced / new joist fitted?

2. If the roof rafters would need anything done to them before fitting PIR insulation boards and plasterboard?

3. What would need to be done to remove the wood supports that come from the center of the roof to the floor? (I presume they are there to support something?)



-The floor area is Aprox 20-25 sq meters (in an L shape)

Room height is 2.5M


Thanks!

 

[foxhole]

Installing floor boards for storage is one thing, loft conversion is major work , if you are asking here probably out of your depth .

 

[DM7]

Installing floor boards for storage is one thing, loft conversion is major work , if you are asking here probably out of your depth .

For 8+ years I have been working doing general things, plumbing, bits of carpentry, tiling, repairs, etc.

I recently started a new company to do more advanced work and I am sub-contracting work out to professionals.

I have a friend who is a carpenter but doesn't do lofts (due to his asthma). He said to make the joist level when putting on the floorboards and to board around the wood supports instead of removing them.

I spoke to someone else today and he said he can do this job for me. But I want to seek further advice from others on this platform, and I am also planning to speak with building control as well, as I want to ensure that before any work is carried out it is done in accordance with all relevant laws and that the safety requirements are met to do a good job for the customer.

So really, just asking here to get some information, as I know the guys on here love to help out and share their expertise.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Installing floor boards for storage is one thing, loft conversion is major work , if you are asking here probably out of your depth .

This, do your friend a favour and tell him to find a professional.

 

[DM7]

This, do your friend a favour and tell him to find a professional.

Your comment is not helpful, a waste of time, and spreading negativity.

If the correct steps are followed (correctly) any domestic building work can be done, even by a DIYer. It's not rocket science.

DIYers have built extensions, and renovated whole houses. Yes, if they don't research properly they will mess it up, bit if they get good advice they can get the job done.

So someone like myself, who has been working in the trade for 8+ years, gained many skills in what is needed for these projects, and is now looking to expand and build up a team of professional workers to take on bigger projects with me should be able to do so.

It's just a matter of research, advice and following the correct steps.

So please, only comment with positive advice that helps with what I'm doing otherwise move on to another thread or something.

I.e., a positive advice might be "to proceed a structural engineer would need to assess the loft to make sure x y z"

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Does your friend know you're posting on a DIY forum asking how to proceed?

 

[big-all]

ok my thoughts to convert to storage perhaps 500-1k
same to in future to comply with building regs if required perhaps 5+k so not an easy job
you need to comply with insulation structural requirement and head clearance amongst other regs

in general the ceiling timbers is to hold the ceiling up up so floor timbers need to be around twice the size
all work needs to be passed and checked by building control at stages as required so your work done now may not count as not quantifiable at a later date

 

[johnny2007]

I've done a few of these jobs and always advised to lay new floor joists so they will be already there when loft is converted.
It's not the easiest job without touching the roof, but very doable even by a competent diyer.
The most essential thing is to get a structural engineer involved so to plan the loft conversion and do the floor accordingly.
In other words, you'd be doing a bit of the work in preparation for the conversion.
Otherwise, if it's only for storage, get some chipboard flooring 22mm and board the existing joists.
In this case, at conversion stage, the boards will need to be lifted and could be reused.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I will guarantee that once the home owner realises they'll need a design for the loft conversion, know exactly where the stairs would go, need an SE design, a couple of steels, some beefy floor joists, get Building Control on board, what started as a flippant idea will turn into £10k+ of work, the'yll end up just laying a bit of chipboard on top of the existing ceiling joists.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Someone has asked me to give them a quotation on converting their loft into a storage space, with the future intention of further conversion work i.e., they may later make the loft into a dormer conversion.

Others here have far more experience than me, and may disagree.
However, my problem, is that what your clients are asking for, doesn't seem achievable.

I have looked at doing exactly the same; creating a usable storage space, with the intention of converting later on.

Basically, as soon as you start making structural alterations to the roof space, building control need some involvement.
If you install adequate floor joists, insulation and improve access, it makes sense to make changes that will pass BC for a loft conversion; in doing that, naturally, you are creating a habitable space, which may require extra work regarding escape routes, fire doors etc.

Alternatively, you can go purely down the storage room route, making minimal changes, not involving building control, but accepting that any work you do, will likely be completely undone when you create the conversion.

If you want a loft conversion at a later stage, it seems to make sense to create it as a conversion, from the start, even if you leave it as a shell.
Regulations also change, any work you do now, may need redoing in the future anyway.

I went down the second route, strengthening the joists and reboarding. It is definitely not a habitable space, but is much more usable.

Although a couple of years old, and more relevant to Wales, I've found this document useful...

 

[cdbe]

Same as everyone else! As a "professional" building contractor I would suggest you tell the client it's not really possible to carry out a "half" conversion. The storage option (ladder, boards and light) can be procured via the Facebook cesspit by lads who can throw this in before lunchtime for £500 - I don't see how you can subcontract this to a "professional" and give the client value for money.

If I was your client I think I'd be impressed by your honesty and would certainly consider you for any eventual loft conversion.

 

[DM7]

Same as everyone else! As a "professional" building contractor I would suggest you tell the client it's not really possible to carry out a "half" conversion. The storage option (ladder, boards and light) can be procured via the Facebook cesspit by lads who can throw this in before lunchtime for £500 - I don't see how you can subcontract this to a "professional" and give the client value for money.

If I was your client I think I'd be impressed by your honesty and would certainly consider you for any eventual loft conversion.

This is like the second time in around 6 weeks someone has asked me about converting their loft. The first client had a truss roof. I said to them that I was not confident that this roof would be able to be converted without modifying the roof and I advised them to get a structural engineer before proceeding.

This second client has rafters and the first question I asked them was "Do you know if the loft is structurally strong enough to be converted?" they said "yes." But I was not convinced, hence why I decided to do further research into this.

I gave them a quote and clearly said in the quotation that this is based on no modifications needed to the joists/roof and that before proceeding further investigation would be carried out to ensure that this was the case and that all relevant laws and safety requirements would be checked. I also mentioned to them that if it was just boarded up (as they originally asked me to do) then the work may need redoing in the future if they were to later convert the loft into a living space.

So I am being very clear with them. Doing the relevant checks, and being very cautious.

 

[AkiraDIY]

You say you're being very clear and cautious but are you being honest and telling your potential clients that:

A) You don't actually know how to do the work yourself and are just acting as a middleman in this capacity?

B) Your experience is (or sounds like at least) essentially that of a time-served handyman or avid home DIY-er? With that in mind, how are you even able to price the job without knowing exactly what needs to be done?

Honest truth is if someone is relying on other professionals, sub-contractors, and a DIY forum to figure out how to do a job, any quote will be inaccurate and have no value for money after everyone has added their cut. At least they know the job is outwith their capabilities but not wise enough to stop pursuing it.

If I were the client, I wouldn’t be happy that the contractor I approached just pretended to know what he was doing and subcontracted all the work without informing me. Means I’m paying for a middleman and getting a sub-contractor I don’t know, haven’t researched/ no-one I know vouched for. Sure, you might guarantee the work but so will the sub-contractor if I went to them directly, so what are you bringing to the table other than a bill for your own training? It would also be cheaper, less chance for confusion, and less likely that the final bill will exceed what’s quoted if I cut out the middleman.

Your comment is not helpful, a waste of time, and spreading negativity.
If the correct steps are followed (correctly) any domestic building work can be done, even by a DIYer. It's not rocket science.

You might not have found the comment helpful, nor do you like it, but it’s the truth. Yes it’s not rocket science, DIY-ers can do a lot, but you’re not acting as a DIY-er. You’re acting in a professional capacity, charging professional rates, and that’s significantly different. The prime contractor shouldn’t be learning how to do the job on the fly and won’t know if the sub-contractor is doing a proper job. It doesn’t sound like you’re in a position to carry out the work of a loft conversion, either as a tradesman or as a manager of sub-contractors.

Expectations need to be managed and your goal of taking on more advanced work might be better done in baby steps. If loft conversions are your goal, how about getting proper training or working under professionals (opposed to them under you. No-one likes a clueless manager) that know how to convert lofts instead of trying to be a jack of all trades? But going by your posts, it sounds like you’ve already decided to push on regardless and will only take on board what you want to hear. Good luck to you and your client. Just bear in mind if anything goes wrong or your subcontractor messes up, you’re the one getting it in the neck.

 

[DM7]

You say you're being very clear and cautious but are you being honest and telling your potential clients that:

A) You don't actually know how to do the work yourself and are just acting as a middleman in this capacity?

B) Your experience is (or sounds like at least) essentially that of a time-served handyman or avid home DIY-er? With that in mind, how are you even able to price the job without knowing exactly what needs to be done?

Honest truth is if someone is relying on other professionals, sub-contractors, and a DIY forum to figure out how to do a job, any quote will be inaccurate and have no value for money after everyone has added their cut. At least they know the job is outwith their capabilities but not wise enough to stop pursuing it.

If I were the client, I wouldn’t be happy that the contractor I approached just pretended to know what he was doing and subcontracted all the work without informing me. Means I’m paying for a middleman and getting a sub-contractor I don’t know, haven’t researched/ no-one I know vouched for. Sure, you might guarantee the work but so will the sub-contractor if I went to them directly, so what are you bringing to the table other than a bill for your own training? It would also be cheaper, less chance for confusion, and less likely that the final bill will exceed what’s quoted if I cut out the middleman.

You might not have found the comment helpful, nor do you like it, but it’s the truth. Yes it’s not rocket science, DIY-ers can do a lot, but you’re not acting as a DIY-er. You’re acting in a professional capacity, charging professional rates, and that’s significantly different. The prime contractor shouldn’t be learning how to do the job on the fly and won’t know if the sub-contractor is doing a proper job. It doesn’t sound like you’re in a position to carry out the work of a loft conversion, either as a tradesman or as a manager of sub-contractors.

Expectations need to be managed and your goal of taking on more advanced work might be better done in baby steps. If loft conversions are your goal, how about getting proper training or working under professionals (as opposed to them under you. No-one likes a clueless manager) that know how to convert lofts instead of trying to be a jack of all trades? But going by your posts, it sounds like you’ve already decided to push on regardless and will only take on board what you want to hear. Good luck to you and your client. Just bear in mind if anything goes wrong or your subcontractor messes up, you’re the one getting it in the neck.

Sorry, but when I worked for building companies the owners running them and managing the building were clueless about things like how to even paint a wall properly, let alone build a house (yet they are managing a team of tradesmen who are building the houses).

Same when I worked for an estate agency doing repairs. The management knows nothing about how to do the repairs, and they rely on people like me and other tradesmen to do the work.

They then add on 20%, or more, and charge the client.

This is something I realised.

Why am I grafting making companies £££ for my hard work?

And given that I know more than them, I'm more skilled and in a better position than them to understand and manage a team of tradesmen, and I have 8+ years of clients, many of who are repeat customers, who love my work, asking me to more work than I can handle and do, and I know other professional tradesmen who have agreed to team up with me, under my company name, then why not??

And obviously, I am not relying on this forum to learn how to do a loft conversion!

This is just one of many avenues that I am taking.

I am utilising all available resources. Inc. Friends who are in the trade.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So someone like myself, who has been working in the trade for 8+ years, gained many skills in what is needed for these projects, and is now looking to expand and build up a team of professional workers to take on bigger projects with me should be able to do so.

It's just a matter of research, advice and following the correct steps.

.....and based on zero actual experience, otherwise you would not be in here, asking. It all sounds like a potential for disaster, for both you, and more importantly - your client/customer.