Mega flo again.

In the beginning it sounded to me as if your problem was with the showers. You had a tap that packed in, filter full of crud.
It now seems that your problem is more than just showers so:
Stop tap in road fully open?
What does gauge show with all taps closed?
What does gauge show with 2 x showers running full tilt?

I have not identified your shower yet but probably the cartridge looks like this. The 2 gauze strips at the base are the inlet filters

 
Have you also checked the flow? With your incoming main being 28mm then you should have sufficient flow but always worth a check. Time filling a bucket full flow at the outside tap for a minute, how much water is there in L?

Presume there isn't a PRV and/or strainer at the mains stop tap?
 
Have you also checked the flow? With your incoming main being 28mm then you should have sufficient flow but always worth a check. Time filling a bucket full flow at the outside tap for a minute, how much water is there in L?

Presume there isn't a PRV and/or strainer at the mains stop tap?

Having read thread from start, I was thinking same... pressure but no mention of flow... until @Madrab. Get dynamic flow tested at kitchen/utility/garden tap, before pulling things apart!
 
I'd check things methodically from your stopcock onwards. Start by measuring the static pressure / flow and dynamic pressure / flow from the first outlet after your stopcock. Ideally this would be at least a 22mm outlet. This will tell you if your incoming supply is, indeed, up to the job. If you can find out which showers you have, you'll be able to see what kind of flow you require (probably 15 l/min or more).

Next would be the same measurements AFTER your PRV multi-bloc. There is a strainer in there too, but given a new bloc was fitted, it's unlikely that would be clogged up (but possible).

Assuming both of the above are ok, move onto the first cold and hot outlets and test those independently. Try bath taps and sink taps to rule out individual taps being at fault. Take heads off of showers and measure the flow directly from the arms. You get the picture -- it's time consuming, but eventually you'll narrow down where the problem is. Something I think your G3 plumbers should have ideally done rather than just randomly changing parts in the hope it fixes things.
 

"I'd check things methodically from your stopcock onwards. Start by measuring the static pressure / flow and dynamic pressure / flow from the first outlet after your stopcock. Ideally this would be at least a 22mm outlet. This will tell you if your incoming supply is, indeed, up to the job. If you can find out which showers you have, you'll be able to see what kind of flow you require (probably 15 l/min or more).

Next would be the same measurements AFTER your PRV multi-bloc. There is a strainer in there too, but given a new bloc was fitted, it's unlikely that would be clogged up (but possible).

Assuming both of the above are ok, move onto the first cold and hot outlets and test those independently. Try bath taps and sink taps to rule out individual taps being at fault. Take heads off of showers and measure the flow directly from the arms. You get the picture -- it's time consuming, but eventually you'll narrow down where the problem is. Something I think your G3 plumbers should have ideally done rather than just randomly changing parts in the hope it fixes things"

WORDS OF WISDON: And what i would of hoped for- had i known /asked on here, although really i should not have to. As you say and i concur they where all licensed . 2 x are on the megaflo recommend installers list!


UPDATE:

Great news. I have changed the 2.1 bar for a 3 bar and standing pressure is 3.0 after the PRV and on the megaflo 3.0 also.

I assume that's as good as it gets?

I have had the main big rain fall shower running, 2 x sink taps and flushed a toilet and very little drop in flow too.

All in all as I read the thread back it sounds like a panic!, I was just a my wits end.

It all started with low pressure and me insisting I wanted the 3 bar PRV changing of which 2 plumbers insisted it would not be the issue.

Plumber One: recharged the megaflo, off which I now know i can do myself.

Plumber Two: Fitted 2 valves and insisted it was united utilities:

So we started with 1.5 bar and had 3 plumbers out, we have ended up with 2 pressure gauges fitted (on the incoming upstairs and one on the megaflo) so thats fair enough as at least now i know what we are getting (although i can not help going upon stairs every now and then and checking them)

Plumber Three: Fitted a 2.1 bar PRV and made it even worse, I am now suspicious of this as he did say he would be back to further investigate on a day rate. I looked at the PRV when he had left and noticed the part of the plastic washer - label on the PRV where it says 2.1 quite obviously had been turned out of sight, so it was not able to be read, it was only when i turned the ring round by accident i saw it was 2.1 Bar.

I have had a friend who to be honest is not a qualified plumber but works on houses as a full time maintenance person swap the 2.1 bar cartridge for the 3.0 bar one, it was a like for like fit.

He took the old original 3.0 bar PRV apart and it was failing apart inside (7-8 years old) so.....

Bingo! As i suspected all we really needed and what i had requested, a replacement 3.0 bar PRV (A new cartridge may have even been ok) it was my call to replace the valve though.

So the moral of the thread:

*Don't panic like i did and get stressed about it.
*Get a plumber you can trust
*Even better a plumber recommended.
*Use a forum such as this "and be honest" don't be embarrassed to ask even if you think you may be right "Ask the professionals"
*Listen and it will all work out

Finally update any posts you start, no matter what the subject as there is nothing worse then finding one thats exactly the issue you have, reading it all to find the original poster leaches all the knowledge and is selfish enough not to share the solution for those to benefit from.

Thanks to all on the forum for reading, helping and not calling me stupid!

Respect.
 
Glad you got it sorted - and don't worry about stressing, you're in good company. It bugs the hell out of me when something isn't working as expected.
 
So I'm back with some more info and for advise / Help!

Finally got round to checking the flow, I bought one of those flow measurement jugs (they are tiny compared to the pictures!) Lazy I know, but i did not actually have a bucket.
SO: Stats of the house are as follows and i m looking for advise on improving it even more, will get to this at the end.

Incoming pressure at the main stop tap - 3 bar
Pressure on 3rd floor before the 3 bar reducing valve is - 2.7 - 3.00 (depending on time of day)
Pressure on megaflo - 2.9 - 3.00

Flow rate on stop tap 16L
Kitchen sink (on its own) - 16L
Kitchen sink and downstairs utility sink on - 15L
2nd floor bathroom (on its own) 12L
3rd floor bathroom (on its own) 11L

2nd floor bathroom & 3rd floor bathroom (tap on) 9L

So I really don't know what the flow figures amount to?

As this thread was about getting the showers on the 2nd and 3rd floor better - we have now a great improvement just by replacing the 3bar PRV as stated.
But i want more now!

Questions:

In the great scale of things is this currently good? - I mean the showers are good (far better than they where) but beyond that i don't really have a bench mark to go off.

I am now open to comments and advise on how this compares to the norm (if there is one)

I am hoping for advise on a product that i have researched well now.

"Boost a main" (Not putting links up as Im not into promoting a single brand but you can google it) and and adding in a 300L accumulator - the combined pump and accumulator offer: 4.5 bar and flow rates up to 130 litres per minute!!

I have looked at the Stuart turner and Grundfos versions and they are a bit cheaper but this product looks to be a killer? I know a break out tank and a pump is also an option, but this sounds awesome.

The pump has no moving parts so is silence, this would be a much needed option as it will sit in the garage below a bedroom. The pump motor comes with a lifetime guarantee.
Location wise the garage is perfect as the main comes in there along with the stop tap and we have plenty of room (empty double garage) The pipe going after the stop tap goes strait up the wall upstairs and ends up in the room the mega flo is and the 3 bar PRV etc. so fitting something like this will be easy (not me though!) Yet another plumber will be required. I have looked at the schematics though and very basic as I'm sure you guys would know.

Has anybody even heard of them? Used them?

They are mainly in the south and after speaking with one of their directors, who i will add gave me no hard sell at all and in fact was rather relaxed about it - just sound very confident in the product.

I did also speak with a company.. Im not sure I should be naming on here? That i rang for advise and they actually came strait out and told me about them as i had not seen them online anywhere. They said they now only use them.

They are also in the south and informed me they are so popular in london because of the silent noise and everybody in London as we know converts the loft get space and water pressure and flow is not so good.

So what do you think about all this!?

Am i just being greedy and what i currently have is what many would kill for?

Thanks as always.

P
 
So you incoming main flow rate is 16L/min. I believe most unvented manufacturers recommend a minimum of 20L/min. The issue you'll have with that flow rate will be if another outlet is used at the same time as your shower. The shower performance will probably suffer.

The loss in pressure is due to the height of your cylinder. I believe for every 10m in height you lose 1 bar of pressure. Your incoming pressure is obviously high enough to still give you close to 3 bar at 3rd floor level. The incoming pressure will vary throughout the day depending on other usage in your area.
 
So are you saying it would be worth having the unit I mention above to increase the flow? Will this result in more powerful showers, Even if just one shower is in use..?
 
300L accumulator - the combined pump and accumulator offer: 4.5 bar and flow rates up to 130 litres per minute!!

And when the water stored in the accumulator has been used the flow rate drops to slightly less than it was before the accumulated was added. ( added resistance of the valve gear needed to fill and enpty the accumulator )

Unless you like very long and high flow rate showers the accumulator is unlikely to run out in normal use..
 
I don't know about the unit you mention, but more flow will help with the multiple outlets being used. Whether a single shower's performance will increase depends on your shower and it's spec. Have a look at what it's maximum flow rate is. It also depends on the type of head you use - a big rain type head won't feel as powerful as a smaller head, for example. Generally speaking, a 16 l/min shower is decent (from experience).
 
I don't understand why you are not content with your already very high flow rate shower.

An average shower is about 10 li/min.

You seem to have at least 15 li/min when one shower is being used. That should be enough for anyone normal.

Your basin flow rates are really far too high and serve no purpose apart from causing splashing.

About 6 li/min is totally adequate for hand basins!

Tony
 
I am happy but I would just like more. I don't think its unreasonable to aim for the best i can get, I work in tough surroundings a good shower is welcome.

I checked the pressure at 6.30pm tonight which i assume is prime time for water use in my area and we where at 2.0 bar again on the incoming and 2.5 on the megaflo it will be back up at around 9.30pm

We have 3 showers in total;

I think from looking at the design these are correct.

Two of the showers are the same.

Hansgrohe Raindance Round Shower Head - 240mm head - SPEC - 9 Litres Per Minute At 3 Bar

With a Hansgrohe Axor Starck Shower Valve With Shut Off SPEC - 26 Litres Per Minute At 3 Bar

And the third shower:

Hansgrohe Raindance Round Shower Head - 300mm head - SPEC - 19 Litres Per Minute At 3 Bar

With a Hansgrohe Axor Starck Shower Valve With Shut Off SPEC - 26 Litres Per Minute At 3 Bar

Although some may disagree with me wanting to aim high and may be satisfied with the current set up, I am just wanting the best i can get. The house we are in will be it for the next 15 years at least and see my young children (7 and 4) having more and more showers as they would rather that then a bath. As they age we will be having all 3 showers on at the same time more and more.

I am hoping that the system I'm looking at will do the job well as its listed to delivery more than required.
 
Back
Top