Micra K12 engine oil

[DiyNutJob]

You need:

"Yamalube 4 stroke 10W-30 motor oil is a mineral based formula with a specific blend of additives necessary for use in four stroke marine engines. It provides superior lubrication and bearing protection."

Nothing to stop you experimenting and put in other oils. It might blow, or it might work. It's very much a case of no risk no gain. But, it would be fair to presume the bike maker already experimented and found the overall optimum oil for it. Deviating slightly might not be a problem. When things are not working, you can often get signs of it in sound or smell.

 

[DiyNutJob]

The car engine manu's must be clueless. If only they had consulted you

If you think car manuals can cover every circumstance, you are simplistic. Recommendations are good for most people in most common circumstances. But not everyone is in those most common circumstances. Also, most recommendations would have an economic angle where the consideration is about profit. For instance, they say you must change oil every 1 year, 2 years etc. If you keep the oil in the original bottle, do you need to change it? If the engine condition is good enough to be like that bottle, why do you need to change it? If you don't change it, will it blow? If it doesn't, why do you care?

 

[DiyNutJob]

Ah... so because the bottles looked the same to you, then the labels must have been wrong? Wow... eBay sellers must love you! I've got some **** in a whisky bottle. I'll put it on eBay for £50 and tell you it's 50 year old single malt. You're bound to believe me....

I would not believe you because you are unable to be convincing. Good ebay sellers or good sellers elsewhere tend to exude an aura of convincibility. I never said the labels are wrong. But they are all over the place. Even castrol itself is all over the place with their oil. The latest spec dated may 2021 says one thing - no bmw compatibility. Their oil finder says something else - bmw compatible. As for the seller, they couldn't work out what time of day it was because of the confusion.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...16887B58025856D0016E9D5/$File/wepp-bpsmes.pdf

So the guy who considers himself "in tune" with things mechanical, takes his engine apart in a sufficiently cack-handed manner to cause an oil leak and then drives it round for "years" with the oil leak he caused?

Prior to that, I never even opened a bonnet. A little mistake is to be expected. You know me, I am a low maintenance guy. If it leaks, then it leaks.

In Post#34 you said it had got "somewhat thickish", now you're saying it had got thinner? Make your mind up!

Oil runs thin over time giving higher MPG. But it doesn't run thin enough to be not thick. Your claim is otherwise.

It is under consideration right now. And if they do decide to make it an MOT fail, it will be thanks to people like you, who drive round with potentially dangerous faults...

Sounds like there are lots of people like me. Wonder why. Why so many refuse "free lunch", they know something you don't?

Ah yes... Of course you do... The guy who, not so very long ago, was telling us he didn't even trust them to carry out an MOT unless he was watching...

I was talking about the policy maker. You are talking about the mot guy. The policy maker is more remote to my wallet and I am OK to not watch over him. I think there must have been good reasons to not make it a mot fail in the past. Those same reasons and monies would still be around. I needn't worry about it. It will take care of itself.

...but we're talking about oil and a filter a decade old, of course...

You have never seen one before. How did you become an expert on it?

Well, if your rust fixes itself from one year to the next, maybe your oil will do the same?

My brake discs were bad many years ago. So long ago, I can't remember when. But, they are now good. Sometimes, life is a mystery, or rather the mot guy is a mystery.

 

[Burnerman]

This still sounds like a wind up, but if we recall Ford's original 16v Zetec engine it was very prone after just a couple of months of production to valve seizure in the cylinder head.
Ford very quickly found that it was a lubrication issue and produced a suitable blend that sorted it completely. Using other oils required a new cylinder head.
BMW had a horrendous noise coming from the limited slip diffs of the M3 and M5 - another oil blend sorted that too.
Using a fully synthetic oil in the Yamaha motorbike will quickly glaze the cylinder bores - and high oil consumption will result.
Therefore I would recommend everyone puts their faith in the manufacturer......there's a good chance they know more than us!
John

 

[JohnD]

I would not believe you because you are unable to be convincing. Good ebay sellers or good sellers elsewhere tend to exude an aura of convincibility.

As do conmen, scammers, bullshifters and bluffers.

 

[DiyNutJob]

Using a fully synthetic oil in the Yamaha motorbike will quickly glaze the cylinder bores - and high oil consumption will result.

Then how do you explain this?

Castrol POWER1 Racing 4T 10W-40 Fully Synthetic 4 Stroke Motorcycle Engine Oil

 

[Burnerman]

The secret is in the title.....'Racing' where maximum protection against seizure / failure is required and oil consumption isn't an issue.
For general use - having owned many massively powerful bikes of 1200cc / up to 180 BHP - they all required a semi synthetic brew of lube. Many people - in the misguided faith that the best oil would be the best for their engine - suffered bore glazing and very high oil consumption as a result. This has also had a detrimental effect on the catalytic converter(s) but this isn't so prevalent as on cars because the cats run so blisteringly hot.
When you consider that bike engines can run higher than 14000 rpm - and up to 10000 rpm is absolutely typical - a semi synthetic oil has been just fine, assuming it is recommended for that bike. Naturally enough, clutch and transmission requirements need to be observed too - and a fully synthetic oil and wet clutches don't really get on.
My own bike of the day - a Triumph 900 GT - has a service interval of 10,000 miles.
The same applies to two stroke engines.....the best quality chainsaws use a semi synthetic oil at a 50:1 mix - and few machines work harder than these.
Again, the manufacturers know better than us - but of course it's our privilege to change the oil and filter more frequently if we want to.
John

 

[Avocet]

...Good ebay sellers or good sellers elsewhere tend to exude an aura of convincibility.

...As for the seller, they couldn't work out what time of day it was because of the confusion.

I'll just leave that there...

Prior to that, I never even opened a bonnet. A little mistake is to be expected. You know me, I am a low maintenance guy. If it leaks, then it leaks.

That's getting a bit closer to honesty! "in-tune with things mechanical", indeed! You're just a bodging skinflint who neglects his cars! Nothing wrong with that (unless it endangers some other poor road user, of course), but please don't try to pretend you're "in-tune with things mechanical"!

Oil runs thin over time giving higher MPG. But it doesn't run thin enough to be not thick. Your claim is otherwise.

Ok, so it's thick but it's thin, but it's also thick but it's not really thick enough to be thick, so it's thin, then...

Sounds like there are lots of people like me. Wonder why. Why so many refuse "free lunch", they know something you don't?

No, it's more likely they don't know something that I do. However, there aren't (fortunately!) many people like you. Manufacturer safety recalls (the clue's in the word "safety") are typically more than 90% effective. If there were lots of people like you, DVSA would have done it by now.

I was talking about the policy maker. You are talking about the mot guy. The policy maker is more remote to my wallet and I am OK to not watch over him. I think there must have been good reasons to not make it a mot fail in the past. Those same reasons and monies would still be around. I needn't worry about it. It will take care of itself.

You do realise this is the same policy maker who tells car manufacturers to send you those safety recall letters that you seem so keen to ignore, don't you?

https://assets.publishing.service.g...nt_data/file/302391/safety-recall-leaflet.pdf

You have never seen one before. How did you become an expert on it?

How do you know? Just because I don't neglect my own cars to that extent, doesn't mean I haven't seen the aftermath from those who do!

My brake discs were bad many years ago. So long ago, I can't remember when. But, they are now good. Sometimes, life is a mystery, or rather the mot guy is a mystery.

It's kind-of scary, knowing that I'm sharing the roads with someone who can't / won't even check their own brake discs...

 

[Lazzy]

It's not dumb at all! Oil specs are incredibly complicated these days. I've heard tales of high oil consumption when people have put fully synthetic oils in marine diesels or other older engines. When Mobil 1 first came out, I was working for a sports car manufacturer. We started using it and suffered horrendous oil consumption. In the end, Mobil told us NOT to use Mobil 1 until the engines had been fully run-in. In fact, it seemed the best results were achieved by running them in on one of Mobil's older mineral oil technologies and only using Mobil 1 after the first year. Sometimes newer isn't better. What does the Yam handbook call for?

Well that's not what I wanted to hear tbh lol. Are you sure this oil of mine could damage the engine? I've 10L of the stuff.
I won't put it in the scooter unless i can, just that the info in the manual is quite dated now but then again so is the bike.
It's an auto drive twist an go, I doubt it revs much above 6500 flat out (no tacho on my model) which i won't be doing, well plan not too!.
It has 23k on the clock and the oil will be changed at 2k intervals

This what the manual says.
Engine oil type
Recommended engine oil
classification API Service SE, SF, SG type
or higher

Do not use oils with a diesel specification of “CD” or oils of a
higher quality than specified. In addition, do not use oils
labeled “ENERGY CONSERVING II” or higher.
Quantity
Periodic oil change 1.2 L
Total amount (dry engine) 1.4 L
SAE 10W/30
SAE 10W/40
SAE 20W/40
SAE 20W/50

 

[Avocet]

Well that's not what I wanted to hear tbh lol. Are you sure this oil of mine could damage the engine? I've 10L of the stuff.
I won't put it in the scooter unless i can, just that the info in the manual is quite dated now but then again so is the bike.
It's an auto drive twist an go, I doubt it revs much above 6500 flat out (no tacho on my model) which i won't be doing, well plan not too!.
It has 23k on the clock and the oil will be changed at 2k intervals

This what the manual says.
Engine oil type
Recommended engine oil
classification API Service SE, SF, SG type
or higher

Do not use oils with a diesel specification of “CD” or oils of a
higher quality than specified. In addition, do not use oils
labeled “ENERGY CONSERVING II” or higher.
Quantity
Periodic oil change 1.2 L
Total amount (dry engine) 1.4 L
SAE 10W/30
SAE 10W/40
SAE 20W/40
SAE 20W/50

Is there an ACEA recommended oil specification on there? (Something A3 or C4)? It's sometimes easier to see what currently available ACEA grade can be substituted for an obsolete one. I take it the scooter is air cooled? They tend to run a bit hotter than water cooled ones.

 

[Burnerman]

Although we can’t tell if your engine will suffer, personally I’d go for one of the more specific bike oils.....Opie, Silkolene or whatever.
Diesel lubricating oils contain more detergent than petrol specific lube, and claim to be low ash.....totally unnecessary additives for your scooter.
John

 

[Avocet]

Opie Oils get a very good reputation on various "petrolhead" fora. They have some good technical articles on oils on their website:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/t-api-car-engine-oil-specifications-explained.aspx

I don't agree with absolutely everything they say, but that's only my opinion. You can contact them for advice, using the form on their website:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/frmRecommendAnOil.aspx

or just phone them. They put their number on their home page.

Thinking about it, the oil you want to use is a 5W40 and your handbook is recommending at least a 10W40 and even 20W40 or 50. The first number is the viscosity when "cold". I think you'll end up with insufficient lubrication on a cold startup - especially in warm weather. Once the oil is up to 100 degrees, it will have the same viscosity as a straight 40 grade oil at the same temperature, so it will behave like the recommended 10W40 at high temperature and you'll be fine, but I think the cold starts might damage the bottom end. That's before we get to the API or ACEA grade question.

Anyway, I'm sure there's no harm in asking them if they think it will be OK to use a 5w40 fully synthetic API SN/CF in a scooter engine intended to be run on 10w40 API SE, F or G.

 

[Lazzy]

Is there an ACEA recommended oil specification on there? (Something A3 or C4)? It's sometimes easier to see what currently available ACEA grade can be substituted for an obsolete one. I take it the scooter is air cooled? They tend to run a bit hotter than water cooled ones.

Had a quick look but that's all i can see, sorry, it's more like a basic operating manual, doesn't go into great detail.
No it's water cooled. Oh just seen your recent post. Yeah it's not looking feasable, not worth the risk, no worries will have to buy something more suitable/ Thanks guys