My Domestic Wiring

[Risteard]

The only way, (without making all the cables of all circuits visible for inspection) to get a certificate to cover all the circuits, would be to have the consumer unit swapped or reinstalled (providing it complies to AMD3).

That still wouldn't cover anything except the replacement of the distribution board though, so it isn't going to certify the existing work.

 

[aptsys]

I am NOT an electrician,

However i have done the following:

- Original modern Consumer Unit with Main Switch, RCCB and MCB's - Mostly untouched

All Earthing from CU to ground spike is original and still in place

Oh.

Have you done everything required to comply with the requirements for a TT earthing arrangement?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

That still wouldn't cover anything except the replacement of the distribution board though, so it isn't going to certify the existing work.

The notification will only cover the CU/DB but as you well know, there will also be inspections and tests on the existing installation downstream of the DB.
So a certificate will be issued with I&Ts documented, although there will be an extent of limitations.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I am NOT an electrician, but i have spent several years working as a labourer alongside domestic electricians and being shown what to do by these electricians.

Not been listening to them or they also do not know what to do either

I also have an electricians manual with wiring diagrams and Part P regs that i consulted for all work.

But ignored important elements of them, with regards to notification, reasonable provisions of safety/inspection and testing and competency.

I have wired up my entire house and it has all been running now with no issues for several months.

You have not proved there are no issues, so that cannot be true until proven. There maybe a potential danger lurking.

However i do intend to get it all professionally tested and am looking for a local electrician right now who can do the testing.

One of the many you have worked with over the years, I presume?

GF and FF Sockets were tested on High load with several 2.5KW heaters for 6 months with no issues.

What electricians manual was that detailed in?

We have also tested everything using a basic plug in testing device, with no errors or issues flagged. We have never had a random or unusual RCCB trip / power out in 9 months of use.

And what test results did they show and are you sure the RCDs even work?

There are no junctions boxes in unreachable places, in fact 70% of the cable in easily accesible. Have used 30A rated junction boxes for socket spurs and 20A rated junction boxes for the occasional light.

Completely gutted house and using junction boxes????

All Earthing from CU to ground spike is original and still in place, all other Earthing from lights and sockets leads back to CU.

But remains untested

However some additional Earthing / Bonding of white goods and copper pipe still needs to be done after the heating has been installed.

And you are living in the property with your family?

But what do you think to me work?

No wonder you were only a labourer and never progressed further than that.
You have shown a lack of understanding, broke the law and possibly designed and constructed a danger.

That is my opinion!

 

[deadshort]

No wonder you were only a labour

Disgusted.

DS

 

[deadshort]

32A MCB circuit for outdoor socket (RCD) and shed socket (RCD) - 2.5mm twin+e cable 30m

If this is not a ring you need to derate the 32A to a 20A MCB.

Regards,

DS

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Changing a breaker to one of a lower rating is not "de-rating" of the breaker.

Disgusted.

BAS

 

[Risteard]

The notification will only cover the CU/DB but as you well know, there will also be inspections and tests on the existing installation downstream of the DB.
So a certificate will be issued with I&Ts documented, although there will be an extent of limitations.

Whilst there needs to be sufficient inspection and testing to verify (so far as is reasonably practicable) that the existing wiring is safe to connect to the new DB, the Electrical Installation Certificate still will not certify anything except the new DB. You certainly are not taking ownership of the existing installation when certifying the new DB.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

My point is, you still gets an EIC with the test results on, rather that an EICR.
The work can be notified, yet a EICR cannot.

I am not saying that the cert covers the fixed wiring, but you gain a cert and compliance notification. If the property was then sold, I would guess no further questions would be asked by buyer/buyer's solicitor.
If you wanted you could get an EIRC, which the solictor may be happy with, maybe not. But if you also provide a certifiacte with a compliance notice, then I doubt they will show concern.

I am not in away saying, this is the correct way to do things. mstizomad has quite obviously broke the law and should be reported to the Part P Police.
Although mstizomad has had some experience in installation work, it seems they are very ignorant to what they have performed in the past and what they have done in this property. They have shown this project is beyond their competency and scope.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My point is, you still gets an EIC with the test results on, rather that an EICR.
The work can be notified, yet a EICR cannot.

But the work the OP did a while back could not be notified.

If someone is going to lie, why bother spending money to create something to lie about when they've already got something FOC?

I am not saying that the cert covers the fixed wiring, but you gain a cert and compliance notification.

No, you gain compliance notification of the CU, not all the wiring done last year.

If you wanted you could get an EIRC, which the solictor may be happy with, maybe not.

The degree of joy felt by a solicitor is of no concern to anyone except him.

But if you also provide a certifiacte with a compliance notice, then I doubt they will show concern.

So you are suggesting that mstizomad should lie about a material fact in a transaction to the value of several hundred thousands of pounds?

I am not in away saying, this is the correct way to do things. mstizomad has quite obviously broke the law and should be reported to the Part P Police.

There are none.

But he should not be given suggestions on how to engage in fraud if/when he sells the house.

 

[ericmark]

I doesn't take rocket science to wire up a house, compared to a lot of building jobs, it's pretty damn simple. When i used to work on building sites, 80% of electricians work would be done by unskilled Labourers. And then the sparky would come along and inspect/test it all. Labourers would do most of the wiring, but leave the sockets and switches loose for easy inspection.

It is not the science which is in question, it is who can sign to say it is OK, that is and has been for many years the person in control, so if you got an electrician to employ you to do the donkey work for him, he is in control, however if you decide to do something he has not sanctioned they he must be free to make you do it again and do it correctly, be it plastering up a wall before he has inspected, or some thing more serious. When I got into the position of electrical engineer I realised how much calculations mattered, OK as you say not that hard, I used on line calculators for some things. However before laying a cable, you do need to know what volt drop and what loop impedance will likely be measured. The last thing you want is after wiring to find it does not pass.

Building Regs in my area don't seem very interested. There are people in my area who's whole roof structural is structurally inadequate / dangerous, yet building regs never inspect. I studied structural engineering.

I also found the LABC did not seem to be interested, however that does not really help, I would prefer some one to say sorry you can't do that, to landing up in court in 5 years time. Reading court cases you quickly realise the LABC seem to have a get out of jail free card. One simple question, have you the skill and if you say yes and you have not got the skill then your fault. Only if you do something blatant to show you don't have the skill are they in trouble.

But read The Emma Shaw case and you see how often it's not who you expect who gets the blame. But one thing which will happen, is every bit of paperwork will be checked. You can try as many tricks as you like, but if anyone goes to hospital and is given just one day off work, then they will look at what went wrong. I have had the HSE inspecting my work, lucky they found nothing wrong, but Dec 2007 to March 2014 for the Emma Shaw case is a long time to not know if your going to be found guilty or not. Once the HSE get their teeth into something they will not let go.

I got very worried about volt drop, I realised for years I was considering 1.44Ω with a ring final was a pass, for the MCB to trip this was correct, however 0.94Ω is the pass mark for a ring final where the incoming is 0.35Ω it was not until a lecture I attended by the IET when it was stated we were now allowed 106 meters of cable in the ring final that I realised I had for years not been using the correct figures, I was correct 1.44Ω to earth but it is 0.94Ω line - neutral with an incomer of 0.35Ω but it did depend on the incoming reading. I had been doing as shown in collage and measuring the ring final, but I had made a mistake with the pass figure.

Now this means some one could pull my paperwork some 9 years after submitting it and find I had made an error. Now I had worked for many firms, and did not have copies of the certificates, so I did not know if I had passed something I should not had done or not. Now I have the software on my PDA so I can check in seconds, but before the PDA and phone which could run java script, that calculation was not easy with all the correction factors.

This is now the problem, electricians do have the software and can find faults, which just 5 years ago they were unlikely to find, the whole idea of rule of thumb has gone. I have not done a single EICR without finding something wrong, it may be regarded as satisfactory, but that does not mean there were no faults. Now I like I am sure every other electrician don't want to get caught out, so if I think some one may be checking my work I am more careful, and I will list things I may feel does not really matter. Most councils work on a three strikes and your out. So any electrician doing an EICR for the council will be very careful not to leave himself open to a strike.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

But the work the OP did a while back could not be notified

But swapping or replacing the CU can

No, you gain compliance notification of the CU, not all the wiring done last year.

I have already said that, please read my post fully and do not quote out of context

The degree of joy felt by a solicitor is of no concern to anyone except him.

But they ask the questions and are the ones that need to be satisfied by the documentation presented to them, for the alleged work. They are contracted by the buyer to do this.

So you are suggesting that mstizomad should lie about a material fact in a transaction to the value of several hundred thousands of pounds?

No I have not, I have said without uncovering all hidden cables, for visual inspection, then going through the proper process of inspection, testing and certification, they could not notify or certificate the work undertaken.
But alternatively the could swap out the CU and get a EIC/notice for that, never mentioned that would include the fixed wiring.
If the work was uncovered for I&T, then the historical work can be processed using reregulation .

There are none.

There no what? Legal requirements with part p. I think you will find they are. Or no Part P police, well contacting the building controls officer, you will find normally they are only to happy to come investigate.

But he should not be given suggestions on how to engage in fraud if/when he sells the house.

I have not, not atanytime did I suggest an illegal act. Everything I have stated is perfectly legal.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But swapping or replacing the CU can

But what would be the point of that?

 

[ericmark]

mstizomad has not seen fit to say where he lives, and Wales and Scotland are different to England, however for England the only bits he needs to register are bathroom and consumer unit, he has stated he has removed and refitted so not new circuits as such. However Part P does not stop at notifying it also required inspection and testing, however some one who claims they can do the work should be able to fill in their own test certificates. There are blanks available on the IET website.

The blanks do give some guidance on how to fill them in, and as he says it's not rocket science. In the main it is tick boxes and simply copying the readings from the meter to the paperwork, the schedule of test results even has stars and numbers for ring it states "Continuity of ring final circuit conductors A test shall be made to verify the continuity of each conductor including the protective conductor of every ring final circuit. See 10.3.2 of the On-Site Guide or 2.7.6 of GN3." as an example so even if he does not know it tells him where to look. OK he may get some bits wrong, but I am sure most of us did with the first few we did. I wrote EEBADS down many times and I am sure I wrote it done a few times when it should have been ADS.

 

[John D v2.0]

But what would be the point of that?

The solicitor just wants "a certificate", that's the easiest legal way to get one. Then everyone goes home happy.