This is the latest update I have received from the planning department. I have mentioned all aspects of it including the alterations he had made to my guttering and the damage he has made to my brick work attaching his flat room but they don't seem interested at all.
Neibour building attached extension to my linked detached house!
- Thread starter Tommyf
- Start date
Well there is still some hope on the Building Control side. You could telephone the Building Control department and say you have some concerns about the work and would they be able to take a look when they are in the area?
It should be obvious to anyone that a building with water gushing onto it may not meet the regulations in other ways.
I do wonder if they are encouraging you to take civil action so that they won't have to spend money on action themselves. The thing is if you go down the civil route it could be very expensive if the neighbour won't back down, whoever loses if it went to court could face some big legal costs. Do you have legal cover on your insurance?
Then there is the remedy. You are looking at dis-attaching from where it hits the wall and re-instatement of the drainpipe to the drain.
Perhaps if you give the right notices he will accept the reality and take the thing down. But to give the notice you have got to be very certain you are legally right, or he might take you to court over it.
The thing is you haven't so far seemed very sure about where the boundary of your plot is. Until you look at your plot outline and look on the deeds about the drainage and the drain ownership it is hard to do say who is in the right over this.
It should be obvious to anyone that a building with water gushing onto it may not meet the regulations in other ways.
I do wonder if they are encouraging you to take civil action so that they won't have to spend money on action themselves. The thing is if you go down the civil route it could be very expensive if the neighbour won't back down, whoever loses if it went to court could face some big legal costs. Do you have legal cover on your insurance?
Then there is the remedy. You are looking at dis-attaching from where it hits the wall and re-instatement of the drainpipe to the drain.
Perhaps if you give the right notices he will accept the reality and take the thing down. But to give the notice you have got to be very certain you are legally right, or he might take you to court over it.
The thing is you haven't so far seemed very sure about where the boundary of your plot is. Until you look at your plot outline and look on the deeds about the drainage and the drain ownership it is hard to do say who is in the right over this.
- Joined
- 7 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 3,006
- Reaction score
- 332
- Country
Have you tried asking the sad sacks over at http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/ ?
- Joined
- 31 May 2016
- Messages
- 15,782
- Reaction score
- 2,371
- Country
@Tommyf have you discussed the trespass with your neighbour or even advised him you have a problem with it?
You have three choices:
1 put up and get on with it, dealing with future problems and the loss of value down the line
2 negotiate with him in good faith and without prejudice to avoid legal action.
3 engage a specialist solicitor to secure an injunction and compensation.
Nothing stops you from starting with 2, but be clear about what you want him to do an acceptable remedy.
If you go with 3, expect costs of between £3 & 5k which you may or may not get back.
The council are doing everything they can to point you in the right direction.
If you are uncomfortable dealing with conflict - start with a friendly but firm letter along the lines:
Dear Neighbour,
Unfortunately the extensions to your property and modifications to my property without permission would allow me to bring an action against you for trespass. Having sought advice I am assured, I could gain an injunction forcing you to repair the damage and remedy the trespass in addition to any compensation and necessary legal fees. This will not end well for either of us, so I'd be very keen to discuss a possible remedy which minimises the impact to both of us.
etc.
You have three choices:
1 put up and get on with it, dealing with future problems and the loss of value down the line
2 negotiate with him in good faith and without prejudice to avoid legal action.
3 engage a specialist solicitor to secure an injunction and compensation.
Nothing stops you from starting with 2, but be clear about what you want him to do an acceptable remedy.
If you go with 3, expect costs of between £3 & 5k which you may or may not get back.
The council are doing everything they can to point you in the right direction.
If you are uncomfortable dealing with conflict - start with a friendly but firm letter along the lines:
Dear Neighbour,
Unfortunately the extensions to your property and modifications to my property without permission would allow me to bring an action against you for trespass. Having sought advice I am assured, I could gain an injunction forcing you to repair the damage and remedy the trespass in addition to any compensation and necessary legal fees. This will not end well for either of us, so I'd be very keen to discuss a possible remedy which minimises the impact to both of us.
etc.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 7 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 3,006
- Reaction score
- 332
- Country
Isn't there perhaps also:
4. Obtain injunctive relief for the removal of the trespass?
4. Obtain injunctive relief for the removal of the trespass?
- Joined
- 31 May 2016
- Messages
- 15,782
- Reaction score
- 2,371
- Country
Edit - I was editing when you posted.
He could get an injunction to remove the trespass, compensation for the damage and legal fees. Or he could fail or be awarded a few £100.
He could get an injunction to remove the trespass, compensation for the damage and legal fees. Or he could fail or be awarded a few £100.
Guys its all very well talking about the legal route, however the OP has not established where his boundary is yet, or looked in his deeds about drainage rights. I think he needs to be careful until he is a lot more certain about the boundary and especially the drain.
I accept it is highly likely the neighbour does not have right of attachment without consent and that the OP had the right to drain into that drain. But there is always the chance a previous user modified the drainpipes, I think we need to be a bit careful.
If I was the OP I would take those photos into the planning office and see if they are able to assist. If they can't I would write to the insurance company and explain what has happened and take up any free legal advice available. The point is the neighbour has most likely done the work in good faith and it is an honest mistake if he has transgressed. If I was the OP I would write to the neighbour expressing surprise at the attachment and the drainpipe and say you have to inform your insurance company about it. Then if further action takes place it is out of his hands.
It does seem it is likely to cost the neighbour a fair bit of money. I can't help wondering what he has done to the wall he has enclosed. Plus has he laid a slab against the wall???
I accept it is highly likely the neighbour does not have right of attachment without consent and that the OP had the right to drain into that drain. But there is always the chance a previous user modified the drainpipes, I think we need to be a bit careful.
If I was the OP I would take those photos into the planning office and see if they are able to assist. If they can't I would write to the insurance company and explain what has happened and take up any free legal advice available. The point is the neighbour has most likely done the work in good faith and it is an honest mistake if he has transgressed. If I was the OP I would write to the neighbour expressing surprise at the attachment and the drainpipe and say you have to inform your insurance company about it. Then if further action takes place it is out of his hands.
It does seem it is likely to cost the neighbour a fair bit of money. I can't help wondering what he has done to the wall he has enclosed. Plus has he laid a slab against the wall???
This situation is like an episode from a bad sitcom. I can't believe the neighbour went to so much trouble, yet has a roof with no gutter with two downpipes discharging directly onto it.
At the back is that slab new??? Or perhaps there was a greenhouse or shed in that area??? It would be good if the OP had a 'before' photo.
I think the most worrying thing is the water. Where is it going and is it blowing on walls or making the ground saturated? How long can it continue like this before it starts affecting the house???
At the back is that slab new??? Or perhaps there was a greenhouse or shed in that area??? It would be good if the OP had a 'before' photo.
I think the most worrying thing is the water. Where is it going and is it blowing on walls or making the ground saturated? How long can it continue like this before it starts affecting the house???
To give you abit of a clearer picture of what is should look like without anything there (this is my side) as you can see the storm drain cover and both mine and the other neighbours downpipe. I think I will try to speak to him about the situation and see if we can maybe resolve something.
Attachments
Thanks for the photo it is most helpful.
I have found a similiar situation here and it does seem it is a pretty complicated area:
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Law/Question616480.html
It says:
Modern housing estates generally have a Schedule of Rights included in the Land Title. A clause typically says: 'The right to the gutters eaves foundations and any other part of the dwelling house and garage now constructed on the said property to protrude into under or over any part of adjoining estate'. Developers put this clause in there because houses are squashed so close together these days they want to avoid mess-ups in the land title for the purchasers. You can look for such a clause in your title. That gives you the right for your eaves to overhang by 75mm. But it doesn't give him the right now to do the same - the wording is 'now constructed'. So your neighbour can't say your house overhangs the same as his extension does - assuming the clause is there.
If you analyse the boundary line and conclude on the position of the outer wall you are legally within your right to demand its removal - irrespective of what Building Control says. This is neither a Planning nor a Building Control issue - it is a land ownership issue.
So your case seems very strong if you have that clause. But it also shows you do need to be careful. You have done well to come here and not just wade in and start taking it down. It hopefully isn't doing much damage as yet.
It is good if you can talk to the neighbour but I find it very hard to see what can be resolved without major alterations. The thing is the longer you leave it the harder it will be to resolve in the legal sense and the greater the damage.
Is that drain cover now under concrete??? If so I think you should take the photos into the planning office.
I have found a similiar situation here and it does seem it is a pretty complicated area:
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Law/Question616480.html
It says:
Modern housing estates generally have a Schedule of Rights included in the Land Title. A clause typically says: 'The right to the gutters eaves foundations and any other part of the dwelling house and garage now constructed on the said property to protrude into under or over any part of adjoining estate'. Developers put this clause in there because houses are squashed so close together these days they want to avoid mess-ups in the land title for the purchasers. You can look for such a clause in your title. That gives you the right for your eaves to overhang by 75mm. But it doesn't give him the right now to do the same - the wording is 'now constructed'. So your neighbour can't say your house overhangs the same as his extension does - assuming the clause is there.
If you analyse the boundary line and conclude on the position of the outer wall you are legally within your right to demand its removal - irrespective of what Building Control says. This is neither a Planning nor a Building Control issue - it is a land ownership issue.
So your case seems very strong if you have that clause. But it also shows you do need to be careful. You have done well to come here and not just wade in and start taking it down. It hopefully isn't doing much damage as yet.
It is good if you can talk to the neighbour but I find it very hard to see what can be resolved without major alterations. The thing is the longer you leave it the harder it will be to resolve in the legal sense and the greater the damage.
Is that drain cover now under concrete??? If so I think you should take the photos into the planning office.
Are you able to take a photo from the back garden showing the rear of this 'extension'? It looks like a slab of concrete has been put down from your photo from above.
This must be really stressful for you. But I am very certain it will get sorted, it might take a bit of time though. However once the solicitor's letter is received your neighbour will most likely realise his mistake. You just have to be patient and not worry about it too much, really it is your neighbour who has the problem.
This must be really stressful for you. But I am very certain it will get sorted, it might take a bit of time though. However once the solicitor's letter is received your neighbour will most likely realise his mistake. You just have to be patient and not worry about it too much, really it is your neighbour who has the problem.
About the drain cover. Are you sure it's a storm drain because I was wondering if it is a shared sewer. I don't think rainwater drains generally have inspection covers on houses like yours. I was thinking perhaps you have a downstairs loo on one side of the house and the bathroom on the other side, and that the sewer might be shared drainage. Point is the guy must need a 'building over agreement' if it is a sewer. I don't know if rainwater drains have the same requirement, they quite often just go off to a soakaway, hence no drain cover.
I do think if you visit the planning department with your pics or write in enclosing them you will get into the system and they will do something. Once you get a case number someone will at least come and look at it.
When you bought the house you do get a plan of the drains. If you ring the water company and explain you think your neighbour has built over a sewer drain cover I think someone will drop by to have a look for you. I got them out when the shared sewer drain was blocked on my neighbours land, the guys that travel about doing this work are very friendly. Once you can get the call centre to allocate a repair guy to come the service is very good. I mean if it is a sewer and he has cracked it then they do take this stuff seriously as it is a health hazard.
I do think if you visit the planning department with your pics or write in enclosing them you will get into the system and they will do something. Once you get a case number someone will at least come and look at it.
When you bought the house you do get a plan of the drains. If you ring the water company and explain you think your neighbour has built over a sewer drain cover I think someone will drop by to have a look for you. I got them out when the shared sewer drain was blocked on my neighbours land, the guys that travel about doing this work are very friendly. Once you can get the call centre to allocate a repair guy to come the service is very good. I mean if it is a sewer and he has cracked it then they do take this stuff seriously as it is a health hazard.
- Joined
- 31 May 2016
- Messages
- 15,782
- Reaction score
- 2,371
- Country
It does look like a build over agreement would be needed. I think he may be screwed. If he'd have set it back then there wouldn't have been a problem.
https://www.unitedutilities.com/globalassets/documents/pdf/build-over-public-sewer-guide_acc16a.pdf
https://www.unitedutilities.com/globalassets/documents/pdf/build-over-public-sewer-guide_acc16a.pdf
It could be storm or foul. It could a private drain if it only takes your neighbours waste. If its public then it needs a build over agreement.
Your response from bc seems they dont want to get involved......
Your response from bc seems they dont want to get involved......