New Lighting Circuit

[cwhaley]

No, you must earth the faceplate directly so that it remains earthed when the fixing screws are removed or loose.

Good point, I suppose the greatest risk of a live becoming dislodged would be when moving the faceplate. I think I'd erroneously recalled a post on this site talking about a metal bar which linked the faceplate directly to the earth terminal. Either way I'm connecting to the faceplate directly to the earth terminal so no problem.

 

[Simon35]

Sorry to resurrect my old post, but just coming to connect the switches up for the lighting circuit.

My two gang light switch has three entry cables -- 1) supply in (from previous switch) 2) supply to ceiling light 3) supply to wall lights (there is no cable to the next switch as this is the final switch in the room).

Would I be correct in saying that for the two gang light switch, the live/line on the supply in needs to go into the COM terminals (bridged with a brown wire), one switched light goes to L1 and the other switched light to the other L1, with all the neutrals connected in a block?

Before this final switch, all the other lights are one gang switches, so I'm presuming the terminations are the same, with the COM terminals accommodating both the supply in, supply to the next switch and the single wire bridge.

What's your electrician actually doing if you're doing all the terminating? I thought from your original post you were running in the cables?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Good point, I suppose the greatest risk of a live becoming dislodged would be when moving the faceplate. I think I'd erroneously recalled a post on this site talking about a metal bar which linked the faceplate directly to the earth terminal. Either way I'm connecting to the faceplate directly to the earth terminal so no problem.

I think you are confusing sockets and switches.

Sockets have an earth terminal, to which the plug connects, which is linked, by a bar, to the faceplate.

Switches have no earth terminal on the actual switch part, just an earth terminal on the metal faceplate.

 

[cwhaley]

What's your electrician actually doing if you're doing all the terminating? I thought from your original post you were running in the cables?

Yes that's right, my first post reads: "I'll be clipping the T&E cable on the wall in runs to the various sockets (in the safe zones of course) as well as light fittings and the switches."

After this has been done the electrician is connecting the new sockets to the existing ring main by extending it, as well as extending the lighting circuit to the new fittings.

 

[cwhaley]

I think you are confusing sockets and switches.

Sockets have an earth terminal which is linked, by a bar, to the faceplate.

Switches have no earth terminal on the actual switch part, just an earth terminal on the metal faceplate.

I was thinking of switches like these (not my photo), whereby a metal faceplate presents a danger from a loose live wire. I wrongly thought the faceplate was earthed by the metal strip as seen in this photo, but as you say there's no earth terminal so it wouldn't work. I will be running a correctly-sleeve earth wire to the metal backbox as I've done on switches I've replaced over the years.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I was thinking of switches like these (not my photo), whereby a metal faceplate presents a danger from a loose live wire. I thought the faceplate was earthed by the metal strip as seen in this photo.

Well, not really. The faceplate is earthed by the earth wire.
I cannot see the point of that metal bar.

Is that a plastic faceplate?



This is the more usual arrangement for metal faceplates:

as opposed to a socket:

I won't be relying on that for an earth though, and will run a correctly-sleeve earth wire to the metal backbox as I've done on switches I've replaced over the years.

How could you rely on that if it were not connected to an earth wire?

 

[cwhaley]

Absolutely. I'd probably remembered the bar being connected directly to the faceplate, though. If that was the case then that would be a way of earthing it would it not?

I've never earthed a socket or switch like this, though, and will be linking the earth terminal directly to the backbox (which is of course also connected to the earth on the ring main).

 

[EFLImpudence]

This is probably just terminology, however -

Absolutely. I'd probably remembered the bar being connected directly to the faceplate, though. If that was the case then that would be a way of earthing it would it not?

Yes, but the point is the socket needs the earth (wire) so that the plug can connect it to the appliance, it is then connected to the faceplate by the bar for your protection.
A switch does not need an earth (wire) but one is necessary to protect people so is connected directly to the faceplate.

I've never earthed a socket or switch like this, though, and will be linking the earth terminal directly to the backbox (which is of course also connected to the earth on the ring main).

Yes, but it is primarily the (metal) faceplate which needs earthing for your protection (and socket terminal for appliances), the back box is not an exposed-conductive-part so does not actually require earthing but it is a good idea just in case.

 

[cwhaley]

Sure - totally understand the reason why the faceplate needs earthing and that the earth pin on a plug needs a physical connection to the earth terminal. I just mis-remembered the way wall switch faceplates were earthed that's all. Rest assured I'll be connecting the sockets/switches up as they should be.

 

[Simon35]

Yes that's right, my first post reads: "I'll be clipping the T&E cable on the wall in runs to the various sockets (in the safe zones of course) as well as light fittings and the switches."

After this has been done the electrician is connecting the new sockets to the existing ring main by extending it, as well as extending the lighting circuit to the new fittings.

Ah, OK. You're doing the new bits and he's joining the new bits into the old bits.

 

[cwhaley]

Ah, OK. You're doing the new bits and he's joining the new bits into the old bits.

Yes that's right. He's seen the layout of the T&E and will see the sockets/switches, I'm just not competent legally to do the rest and will need a certificate to sign the extension off with building control. Me doing my part saves him time as I knew where I wanted each fitting, and means I can work out my jobs better.

 

[thomp1983]

If your splitting your existing ring main, for example at a socket then extending it to the extension then you can do this yourself and no paperwork is required, your building inspector should know this.

Only a new circuit or work done within the consumer unit itself is notifiable and requires either a qualified electrician to complete or you can do it yourself and have your building inspector have it inspected but that's a complicated route which usually ends up costing more than just getting a spark in unfortunately

 

[EFLImpudence]

If your splitting your existing ring main, for example at a socket then extending it to the extension then you can do this yourself and no paperwork is required, your building inspector should know this.

Not so.
All electrical work should be tested so the results might as well be recorded. Anyone may do this.

Whether the Building Inspector is interested in non-notifiable work depends on the nature of involvement in the extension.

Only a new circuit or work done within the consumer unit itself is notifiable and requires either a qualified electrician to complete or you can do it yourself and have your building inspector have it inspected but that's a complicated route which usually ends up costing more than just getting a spark in unfortunately

True, but if doing it yourself and not using a 'registered' electrician then the notification must be done before the work is started.

 

[thomp1983]

Building inspector shouldn't be interested in any work that is non notifiable, that's the point of it being non notifiable, I've been fortunate in that my building inspector is very sensible and happy to discuss various ways of meeting the requirements

 

[JohnW2]

Building inspector shouldn't be interested in any work that is non notifiable, that's the point of it being non notifiable, ...

One might think so, but it seems that a good few building inspectors (Building Control Officers, BCOs) don't think like that ...

... those who 'think differently' seem to think that 'notifiability' is only relevant to standalone electrical work, but that when it is part of a larger project (which, as a whole, requires Building Regs Approval) all electrical work involved comes within the scope of that approval (even if it would not be notifiable as standalone electrical work).

The difficulty is that it's difficult to 'appeal' against the views/beliefs/decisions of an individual BCO.

Kind Regards, John