No doubt hate crime on the rise.

[motorbiking]

Wouldn't it be wrong to ignore this possibility?

Can always be correctly classified once the investigation and final answers are known

Or do the police have to get the all the facts on day 1 ?

why not do it the other way round and avoid having lots of hate crimes logged that aren't hate crimes.

 

[Brigadier]

Did you miss the bit where he has actually be charged with the double murder?

Did you miss the bit where I asked for the EVIDENCE of murder?

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

Obviously murder is not a non-crime. But do carry on with your analysis.

In some cases the only incontrovertible fact is the death.
It's the cause of that death that is subject to investigation. And some deaths are investigated as murder, even though they eventually are flagged as death by other means.

 

[motorbiking]

Did you miss the bit where I asked for the EVIDENCE of murder?

Do you think people are charged without EVIDENCE?

 

[denso13]

Police say there is no evidence of a hate crime, but they are treating it as such.

Doesn't seem odd to you?

Until we know the full story of why they said it, then no.

 

[Brigadier]

Do you think people are charged without EVIDENCE?

Without SPECIFIC evidence, yes.

Are you going to tell me that the police have already gathered all of the evidence and "solved" the case, and will be now be having beer and sandwiches until the bloke is sent down?

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

Every single person has protected characteristics, so all crimes are hate crimes?

Nonsense.
Not all protected characteristics are covered by potential hate crimes.
For example age is not considered.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

... and do you have any reason to believe this wasn't followed? No, then what the **** is your point? Evidence isn't needed.

The whole point of an investigation is to find and collect evidence.
If a hate-crime is flagged as such, the investigation to find and collect evidence is followed.
If it's not flagged as a hate-crime, the investigation fails to find and collect that evidence.

Think what you're writing for a second, the police aren't allowed to consider that a crime might be a hate crime? Seriously?

Motorbiking wants that investigation to not occur, the evidence to not be found or collected.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

Comparing Jews with Nazis is listed as a hate crime, it is very much against the law which makes you not only a law breaker but a Jew hater.

Just sayin like, whilst you preach to others about hate crime.

That's because not all Jews are Israeli, and not all Israelis are Jews.
Many Jews vehemently disagree with current behaviour of Israel towards Palestinians.

...
... it was your posts that were in breach of hate crime laws.

...
What paragraph of a UK law do you have in mind?

Anti-Semitism does not cover criticism of Israel.
Despite many mistaken opinions that it does.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

That is not what I am saying at all. Obviously, if they suspect it is a potential hate crime, they must investigate that angle.

I have no interest in the wider debate about whether hate crime is over recorded. The only part of this I am interested in is getting more details of the process by which "officers have followed national guidelines and have initially categorised the incident as a hate crime". I would really like to see the guidelines. Not to further any argument or prove any point. But simply because I am interested in the process. Although various links have been provided on this thread, none of them are these actual guidelines.

The guidelines cover the investigation of possible hate-crimes.
The purpose of the investigation is to find the evidence and to collect it.
In some cases it may also be to discover the cause of death. But that is a part of all investigations concerning deaths. It would not be limited to just possible hate-crimes.
But there are aspects of some investigations that would only be applied in potential hate-crimes.
That is what the guidelines serve to address.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

Police say there is no evidence of a hate crime, but they are treating it as such.

The purpose of the investigation is to discover and collect evidence.
Or to rule out that which is not relevant.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

Perhaps you can explain why you think posting a statement [on a public forum] that compares jewish people to nazis is not 1) a the very least insulting to Jews and 2) having regard for the circumstances [i.e. that you are posting on a public forum] that this could stir up hatred in others towards jews?

Then once you have reflected on that, have a little read of sec 19 and see if you have a problem.

Anti-Semitism refers to Jews. It does not refer to Israel.

 

[Vinty]

Comparing Jews with Nazis is listed as a hate crime

I suppose its ok to compare Muslims with Nazis or Nigel Farage and reform supporters for that matter.
If something walks and talks like a Nazi, then it must be a Nazi?.
Can't see why religion or ethnicity should exempt anyone from legitimate criticism.

 

[IT Minion]

Summary so far:

Police correctly follow national guidance
MBK doesn't like guidance and calls everyone who disagrees antisemites.

 

[IT Minion]

I'm not the one who thinks its lawful to post anti-semitic hate speech.

Since I didn't, **** off.

Edited, I thought that was aimed at me