No doubt hate crime on the rise.

JonathanM said:
It actually says race, racial group or ethnic background. This is what is says:



I've just being reading that English is an ethnic group.
Click to expand...
Where is the link to your source?
Is it relevant to the current hate-crime definitions in UK?
And have there been any recorded hate-crimes based on this criteria?
 
Mrs Doubtfyre said:
Where is the link to your source?
Is it relevant to the current hate-crime definitions in UK?
Click to expand...

My source is the census:

The question asked in England & Wales (2021) was similar, however the response options were presented differently. The question in England & Wales asked:

"What is your ethnic group?

Choose one section from A to E, then tick one box to best describe your ethnic group or background

  • A - White
    • English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or British
    • Irish
    • Polish
    • Gypsy or Irish Traveller
    • Roma
    • Any other white background, write in
Click to expand...
 
Mrs Doubtfyre said:
So is it relevant to the classification of hate-crime in UK.
And has there ever been any recorded cases of hate-crime based on this criteria?
Click to expand...

You are free to Google whether English is an ethnic group. That's all I did. I don't think there is any special definition in relation to hate crime.

I have no idea! But that's not the point being discussed by MBK. He is saying that everyone fits into one of the groups in the definition.
 
JohnD said:
In this case, the primary circumstance is that filly made a claim that was untrue, and you tried to support him.




Not in a UK law.
Click to expand...
According to you - comparing jews to nazis in an online post is lawful?

Yes or no.
 
JonathanM said:
You are free to Google whether English is an ethnic group. That's all I did. I don't think there is any special definition in relation to hate crime.

I have no idea! But that's not the point being discussed by MBK. He is saying that everyone fits into one of the groups in the definition.
Click to expand...
correct, every single person belongs to at least one protected group

17 Meaning of “racial hatred”.
In this Part “racial hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins.

29 Meaning of “religious hatred”
In this Part “religious hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief.
Meaning of “hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation”
In this Part “hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to sexual orientation (whether towards persons of the same sex, the opposite sex or both).

calling homosexuals pedophiles - illegal
Calling jews nazis - illegal
this is not an exhaustive list.
 
motorbiking said:
correct, every single person belongs to at least one protected group

17 Meaning of “racial hatred”.
In this Part “racial hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins.

...
Click to expand...
It's irrelevant if everybody has a protected characteristic. They're not all covered in the Act.

That's a submission to the House of Lords from the Commission for Racial Equality.
It isn't the Act.
 
JonathanM said:
I don't think there is any special definition in relation to hate crime.
Click to expand...
There are: race, religion, disability, sexual orientation and transgender identity.

Nationality does not appear, neither does age or gender.

JonathanM said:
I have no idea! But that's not the point being discussed by MBK. He is saying that everyone fits into one of the groups in the definition.
Click to expand...
But not all such characteristics are covered, or such instances of hate crime been recorded.
So for all practical purposes some of the characteristics can be ignored.
 
For those who are unfamiliar with the Public Order Act and the specific sections I quoted above, which are directly from the Act.

Here it is

Public Order Act 1986

An Act to abolish the common law offences of riot, rout, unlawful assembly and affray and certain statutory offences relating to public order; to create new offences relating to public order; to control public processions and assemblies; to control the stirring up of racial hatred; to provide...
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
 
Vinty said:
I suppose its ok to compare Muslims with Nazis or Nigel Farage and reform supporters for that matter.
If something walks and talks like a Nazi, then it must be a Nazi?.
Can't see why religion or ethnicity should exempt anyone from legitimate criticism.
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Because it can be an excuse or disguise for racism. The labor candidate in Clackton reported many re-form supporters asking him where he really came from. The dumbfu**s thought they were protected because the Queen's lady in waiting had been given the all clear when she said it.
 
motorbiking said:
According to you - comparing jews to nazis in an online post is lawful?
Click to expand...
Your question is nonsense.

Return yourself to the untrue claim that filly made, and to my response.

I can see you are desperately trying to avoid discussing what he said, because it is not true.

fillyboy said:
Comparing Jews with Nazis is listed as a hate crime, it is very much against the law
Click to expand...

Not in a UK law.
 
Its a simple question, we can see why you don't want to answer it.

What Filly said elsewhere is irrelevant and I am not interested in whether you did or did not compare jews to nazis. I hope that you didn't. I have my own opinions about why you are so focused on them.

The fact remains it is going to be offensive, it's obviously to incite hatred towards jews and it therefore meets the very broad criteria of the offence. Noting that since being a jew is a race and or religion, it ticks the box for being an aggravated public order offence. its really not something you want to be convicted of, even if you are now retired.
 
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motorbiking said:
For those who are unfamiliar with the Public Order Act and the specific sections I quoted above, which are directly from the Act.

Here it is

Public Order Act 1986

An Act to abolish the common law offences of riot, rout, unlawful assembly and affray and certain statutory offences relating to public order; to create new offences relating to public order; to control public processions and assemblies; to control the stirring up of racial hatred; to provide...
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
Click to expand...
This one is not from the Act:
motorbiking said:
17 Meaning of “racial hatred”.
In this Part “racial hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins.

29 Meaning of “religious hatred”
In this Part “religious hatred” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to religious belief or lack of religious belief.
Meaning of “hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation”
In this Part “hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation” means hatred against a group of persons defined by reference to sexual orientation (whether towards persons of the same sex, the opposite sex or both).
Click to expand...
It's from a submission to the House of Lords from the Commission for Racial Equality.
 
motorbiking said:
What Filly said elsewhere is irrelevant
Click to expand...
It's not irrelevant.
The initial claims were that it is illegal.
The IT in the first instance was what fillyboy said.
You have now moved the goal posts to discuss what you want to talk about.

Additionally comparing Jews to Nazis is not per se illegal. It's only illegal if it's intended to cause offence.
 
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