No doubt hate crime on the rise.

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

It was classified as a hate crime because the victims were homosexual.
What's so hard to understand about this, you spanner?

More of a wrench, than a spanner.
He's just ratcheting up the rhetoric.

 

[motorbiking]

It was classified as a hate crime because the victims were homosexual.
What's so hard to understand about this, you spanner?

So you are a happy with the over inflated stats and the fact that someone can shout "hate crime" and something is treated as such without any evidence at all.

Hate crime, England and Wales, 2022 to 2023 second edition

www.gov.uk

Shows that a very small number of hate crimes are prosecuted as such. So the hate crime stats are basically nonsense. Good job, well done.

 

[Odds]

So you are a happy with the over inflated stats and the fact that someone can shout "hate crime" and something is treated as such without any evidence at all.

Hate crime, England and Wales, 2022 to 2023 second edition

www.gov.uk

Shows that a very small number of hate crimes are prosecuted as such. So the hate crime stats are basically nonsense. Good job, well done.

wiggle all you like but the fact is both victims were gay, leaving the Met no choice but to classify it as a hate crime. Why does this bother you?

 

[IT Minion]

I'd quite like the police to investigate the murder and follow the evidence. Not possibly artificially inflate hate crime statistics to show they are solving hate crime.

You realise this would show the opposite?

 

[motorbiking]

wiggle all you like but the fact is both victims were gay, leaving the Met no choice but to classify it as a hate crime. Why does this bother you?

nonsense

A hate crime is not based on the existence of a protected characteristic. You do understand everyone has protected characteristics? It's based on the motive being hate.
the offender has either: Demonstrated hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity Or been motivated by hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

Here we have no evidence of a hate motive [as confirmed by the police statement] yet the crime is being classified as a hate crime [again according to their statement].

 

[denso13]

yet the crime is being classified as a hate crime [again according to their statement].

But you don't seem to know why, which might show it is nothing to do with getting the numbers up.

 

[motorbiking]

We only know what they have said. Which suggests the application of whatever policy they are trying to apply is flawed. Either the policy is flawed or the understanding is flawed. Its obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense, that if you categorise something as a hate crime because the victim has a specific protected characteristic, you end up with rubbish data, responding to problems that aren't there, diversion of resource to tackle non-existing problems etc etc.

If you apply the logic that its a hate crime, if the victim has a protected characteristic, then ALL crime is hate crime.

 

[denso13]

Which suggests the application of whatever policy they are trying to apply is flawed

Nonsense. It suggests you have no idea why they do it that way, nothing more.

 

[motorbiking]

I've not said anything to the contrary..

I stated that if you class every crime as a possible hate crime even though the evidence does not suggest it's a hate crime, you are going to report a lot of hate crime. You are also going to build a response, to something that probably isn't needed.

and of course you can subsequently change your classification to show how effectively you are "cleaning up" hate crime.

Create a problem that doesn't exist at the scale you need to justify resource, fix the non-existent problem, pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

 

[Odds]

nonsense

A hate crime is not based on the existence of a protected characteristic. You do understand everyone has protected characteristics? It's based on the motive being hate.
the offender has either: Demonstrated hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity Or been motivated by hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

Here we have no evidence of a hate motive [as confirmed by the police statement] yet the crime is being classified as a hate crime [again according to their statement].

I'd say hostility was demonstrated by the murder of two gay men. Seriously, why make this so complicated for yourself?

 

[denso13]

Create a problem that doesn't exist at the scale you need to justify resource, fix the non-existent problem, pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

More nonsense. You have no idea why it is done this way but have decided it is to massage the figures.

 

[motorbiking]

I'd say hostility was demonstrated by the murder of two gay men. Seriously, why make this so complicated for yourself?

Hostility based on a protected characteristic?
They have said there is no such evidence.

 

[motorbiking]

More nonsense. You have no idea why it is done this way but have decided it is to massage the figures.

I haven't decided it was to massage the figures, I have stated it will falsify the figures.

The data speaks for itself. 10s of thousands of hate crimes of which 80+% are not prosecuted as hate crimes.

 

[JonathanM]

The data speaks for itself. 10s of thousands of hate crimes of which 80+% are not prosecuted as hate crimes.

Can you just clarify this for me. Are you saying that tens of thousands of crimes which are recorded as hate crimes and go as far as a prosecution are not actually prosecuted as hate crimes in more than 80% of cases.

 

[Odds]

Hostility based on a protected characteristic?
They have said there is no such evidence.

Unless they were killed over money or an argument about the accomodation, maybe. Have to wait for the killer's testimony. Til then, the Met play safe by labelling it a hate crime to keep themselves covered.