Possible chrysotile asbestos expsoure. Is this artex?

[alz82]

Hi. I'm new to this forum and looking for some guidance on a subject that has made me worried sick....

A few years back my wife and I bought a mid 1930's house that needed a fair amount of work. We had a back of house extension done for a new kitchen/diner, however to save money my father in law offered to help with some odd jobs that needed doing around the rest of the house (with me assisting). The dining room and (old) galley kitchen ceilings were both in a bad way, so it was decided that they needed to come down. Together we ripped down the ceiling with a crowbar and with little protection. The ceiling was the old lath and plaster type so created a fair amount of dust.

Moving on a couple of years. We recently had a leak in our loft that disturbed the spare room ceiling. As the damage was quite significant we decided to go through the insurance. An assessor came round and took a sample of the artex ceiling to test for asbestos. The tests came back positive for Chrysotile asbestos. I instantly had a moment of terror trying to think back to what the dining room and kitchen ceilings looked like before taking it down! I've done some research into exposure of Chrysotile asbestos within artex and although this is the weaker of the types of asbestos, I know that the exposure could have life changing consequences further down the line (10-40 years). I have a very young son and am continually worrying that I might not be able to watch him grow up if I have been so badly exposed. I'm worried sick.

I have been looking through some old photos and have found one of me taking down the kitchen. Can anyone who has experience tell me if this is artex or if this could be a ceiling wallpaper?

http://imgur.com/oWInHYq

I must add that I have checked the survey that was done when we moved in and the only reference to textured paint was the rear bedroom and bathroom and they stated that these rooms may contain asbestos. There was no reference to the downstairs dining room or kitchen.

Any advice would be really appreciated!

 

[footprints]

That looks like ceiling paper to me, I would say the pattern is too intricate and neatly repeated for freehand Artex.

 

[alz82]

Ok so i now have found photos of the living room that i steamed off and of the dining room ,which as i previously mentioned we took down. I totally forgot i steamed the living room ceiling and am absolutely petrified now!

I imagine these are artex and not ceiling paper?
If so i imagine the likelihood of me having fatal issues in the future is high considering how exposed i was.

This is the living room - http://imgur.com/BB7jGUA
This is the dining room - http://imgur.com/7N0UUIO and http://imgur.com/FG9Jl6p

 

[ajstoneservices]

This is going to sound silly I know. Do you smoke, drink or eat fatty food. Do you drive or ride a bike. Do you walk home alone or visit foreign countries? If you do any of those things you have far more to worry about than asbestos in your home.

 

[lostinthelight]

Ok so i now have found photos of the living room that i steamed off and of the dining room ,which as i previously mentioned we took down. I totally forgot i steamed the living room ceiling and am absolutely petrified now!

I imagine these are artex and not ceiling paper?

I agree with the post above, the patern is too repetitive and even for artex, it looks like embossed paper to me?
litl

 

[alz82]

This is going to sound silly I know. Do you smoke, drink or eat fatty food. Do you drive or ride a bike. Do you walk home alone or visit foreign countries? If you do any of those things you have far more to worry about than asbestos in your home.

Thank for your comments, i appreciate your feedback. The thing is, i find it hard to compare to the examples you gave. If you smoke say only socially during a small period of your life you are very unlikely to get lung cancer. If you cycle and get bumped off your bike by a car or fall off it doesn't mean you will die. All it takes is one exposure to asbestos to give you a range of cancers of the lung that are terminal. As i was so heavily exposed during that period i am seriously worried. Its more that, if the ceilings were artex, it is highly possible i have been heavily exposed to asbestos and wont know the impact for 10-40 years which makes me extremely anxious.

 

[TonyW2]

Sorry to hear of your worries.
You are inaccurate in your relative risk assessments and wrong about the likely outcomes of relatively small asbestos exposure.
However logic is insufficient to stop anxiety and there can never be certainty about the future.
Seriously it is appropriate to discuss your worries with your GP as there could be a need to deal with the anxiety.

 

[Tigercubrider]

The ceiling is embossed paper

If you look at the first image, you can see a straight line where a seam is.
That's the same paper as on the walls of my stairs.

I also believe that the general advice is that steaming artex "should" protect you in comparison to ripping and sanding dry anyway.

 

[ajstoneservices]

Thank for your comments, i appreciate your feedback. The thing is, i find it hard to compare to the examples you gave. If you smoke say only socially during a small period of your life you are very unlikely to get lung cancer. If you cycle and get bumped off your bike by a car or fall off it doesn't mean you will die. All it takes is one exposure to asbestos to give you a range of cancers of the lung that are terminal. As i was so heavily exposed during that period i am seriously worried. Its more that, if the ceilings were artex, it is highly possible i have been heavily exposed to asbestos and wont know the impact for 10-40 years which makes me extremely anxious.

My wife's grandfather worked for a company called Cape Boards and Panels based in Iver, Buckinghamshire. He was covered in asbestos fibres every day of his working life. He would bring some of those same fibres home at the end of the day to his wife and 4 children. His wife would wash his clothes at a time when there were no fancy automatic machines. Maybe his children hugged their father on his return from work, perhaps he hugged and kissed is wife too. I added that bit as that's what I did when got home from work.

This went on for many years until he became ill and eventually died from asbestosis. CBP were very good they offered the eledest a job to replace his father as the breadwinner and on the production line. Win win?

The strange thing is despite daily contact with asbestos fibres his wife reached the grand old age of 84 and died due a stroke. His children are all in there seventies now.

 

[ajstoneservices]

I could go onto to tell you that as kids we had free access to the river where CBP dumped waste water. It often ran white for miles. We fished the pits where they dumped the waste boards. None of the stuff was covered at that time so fibres blew everywhere.

I started working with asbestos over 40 years ago when it was in almost every thing we touched in the building industry. We sawed, drilled and wrapped pipes with it.

Yes many people have sadly died from exposure to asbestos but the overwhelming majority survived only to die from some other unrelated disease or as the result of an accident and many as the result of aging. I doubt any have died of worry, but then the media didn't have much of a story back then.

 

[alz82]

Sorry to hear of your worries.
You are inaccurate in your relative risk assessments and wrong about the likely outcomes of relatively small asbestos exposure.
However logic is insufficient to stop anxiety and there can never be certainty about the future.
Seriously it is appropriate to discuss your worries with your GP as there could be a need to deal with the anxiety.

Hi. Thanks for your comments. i'm actually seeing the GP next week and have an x-ray booked as i have shortness of breath and a tight chest. This is unrelated to the asbestos exposure as too early and was feeling this before i found out about the exposure.

Do you really think this is a small asbestos exposure? I steamed and scraped a whole ceiling and pulled down another with a crowbar breaking into pieces and going all over the place. I also lived in the property so would have been taking in the fibres in the air.

 

[alz82]

The ceiling is embossed paper

If you look at the first image, you can see a straight line where a seam is.
That's the same paper as on the walls of my stairs.

I also believe that the general advice is that steaming artex "should" protect you in comparison to ripping and sanding dry anyway.

Thanks for this. Unfortunately when steaming the ceiling i was scrapping it off too. Does the other photos look like artex to you?

 

[alz82]

My wife's grandfather worked for a company called Cape Boards and Panels based in Iver, Buckinghamshire. He was covered in asbestos fibres every day of his working life. He would bring some of those same fibres home at the end of the day to his wife and 4 children. His wife would wash his clothes at a time when there were no fancy automatic machines. Maybe his children hugged their father on his return from work, perhaps he hugged and kissed is wife too. I added that bit as that's what I did when got home from work.

This went on for many years until he became ill and eventually died from asbestosis. CBP were very good they offered the eledest a job to replace his father as the breadwinner and on the production line. Win win?

The strange thing is despite daily contact with asbestos fibres his wife reached the grand old age of 84 and died due a stroke. His children are all in there seventies now.

Sorry to hear that about your wife's grandfather. How long did it take since his exposure? The thing is although my exposure was over a shorter period than your wifes grandmother, it was so heavy and we continued to live in the property while the fibres were in the air. It would have been all over the place from taking the ceiling down. We also removed the carpet a few months later which had all the dust in it which would have exposed us again. I'm not trying to take a negative twist on this, however i just cant look past the amount of exposure i had to chrysotile asbestos.

 

[ajstoneservices]

He was in his forties when he died. So his wife was being exposed to asbestos for at least 20years.

 

[footprints]

Still looks like paper to me you can see the brown edges of the underside as the paper is pulled off. The last one shows how fine the detail is, I doubt Michelangelo could pull that off with Artex.
Normally Artex is in three or four finishes, pro's will form fan shapes or geometric designs, Diy jobs are usually that horrible mess where they take a rag and rotate in randomly on the ceiling or roller it on in a finish that looks like grotty cement rendering. Purpose built houses where the stuff was the original finish have an even bobbly texture all over referred to over the pond as a "popcorn" ceiling.