Recommendation for a set of chisels for wodwork
- Thread starter Yukster
- Start date
Would you like a £5.99 set or a £100 set?
What will you be doing with them? Don's say "chiselling"
For the stone, a diamond stone - either a 300/600 double or a 400/600/1000 treble if you will be doing a lot of work with them, or just a basic £5 double sided oil stone if not.
What will you be doing with them? Don's say "chiselling"
For the stone, a diamond stone - either a 300/600 double or a 400/600/1000 treble if you will be doing a lot of work with them, or just a basic £5 double sided oil stone if not.
I've taken up woodworking and have been trying my hand at making simple furniture to hone my skills. So I'll be using the chisels to make mortice joins, and for pairing timber. I don't mind spending good money on good hand tools.
Are all 400/600/1000 stones more or less the same or are there better ones?
there is no actual thing as "stay sharp" that happens through quality and maintenance
i have the standard marples red and yellow from perhaps 25 years ago brilliant day to day in use honed as required every so often when a chin wont add enough "push" to give a clean cut in soft wood
modern marples apparently dont use quality steel [that will hold an edge] but i dont know about that
That's what I'm after, a recommendation for good quality chisels that use good quality steel and are available to purchase.
I've got some old Rabones, old Stanleys, newer FatMax and most recent Amtech and Roughneck!
The reason for the different types is that I've only bought chisels in sizes that I needed, not as a big set, and when I see one at a price I want to pay. My old chisels stay home now for bench work
I suppose more relevant will be the newer chisels that you can buy now and I'll say the Fatmax hold a great edge, but so do the Amtech and Roughneck chisels I have - I can't really tell any difference in use, but the price difference was significant. As long as you keep a good edge on them I'd say any chisel will do.
Oh, I forgot to mention a leather strop to to give them a nice mirror polish.
Also decide if you want wooden or plastic handles, and round or oval.
If you are doing mortices, get proper mortice chisels - not just for the extra leverage, but the square profile makes the chisel go in vertically and the mortice is truer. Have a look at Narex, or watch ebay for some older but better quality Sheffield made ones that come available.
The reason for the different types is that I've only bought chisels in sizes that I needed, not as a big set, and when I see one at a price I want to pay. My old chisels stay home now for bench work
I suppose more relevant will be the newer chisels that you can buy now and I'll say the Fatmax hold a great edge, but so do the Amtech and Roughneck chisels I have - I can't really tell any difference in use, but the price difference was significant. As long as you keep a good edge on them I'd say any chisel will do.
Oh, I forgot to mention a leather strop to to give them a nice mirror polish.
Also decide if you want wooden or plastic handles, and round or oval.
If you are doing mortices, get proper mortice chisels - not just for the extra leverage, but the square profile makes the chisel go in vertically and the mortice is truer. Have a look at Narex, or watch ebay for some older but better quality Sheffield made ones that come available.
If you do a search, you will see the common ones being sold and there are very few different brands.
I bought individual no-name plates off amazon for under £10 each, and glued them to a board and they have performed well for a good few years now.
I also have a 3 set by Faithfull that comes out with me, and again that does what it supposed to do. But if you look at the brands, they will be 3x as much, but I would not pay that much as I am not a frequent user.
D
Deleted member 174758
For most of my site work I use Stanley FatMax through tang bevel edge chisels. For an environment where I often abuse chisels they are OK - but being slightly soft they don't hold an edge as well as a "proper" cabinet chisel, however they don't chip as easily as a super hard chisel, either:
being a bit soft they can be rehoned quickly on site and the through tangs with striking caps on top mean that they can be driven with a hammer - not something you should ever do with "good" chisels, for which you really need a wooden mallet (source Crown Tools or Joseph Marples, both in Sheffield). So a chisel which is good for one set of tasks may not be the best for others
The choice of bench chisels actually made in the UK these days is very limited with the last remaining makes being Crown, Robert Sorby, Henry Taylor, Ashley Iles, Stanley (the Sweetheart range, although production has apparently now gone to Brazil, so not sure how good they will be) and Irwin-Marples (now just a brand - the chisels are now made in China and are being sold on their pre-2000 reputation). Of those the fitrst four names are the "premium" brands. There are also some better quality Continental makers still on the market here including Narex (Czech) and 2-Cherries or Kirschen (Wilhelm Schmidt, Germany). There are also some Japanese chisels which some people swear by; I tried a small set of Japanese chisels from Roger's about 40 years ago but found them fussy to maintain and unsuitable for hardwoods like oak (too brittle, chipped too easily and were then a lot more work to sharpen), but excellent on softwoods and mild hardwoods.
If you want something new I recommend you go and have a look at Workshop Heaven website for bench chisels. They sell the Czech-made Narex chisels which have garnered quite a good reputation for reasonable quality at a reasonable price in recent years. Workshop Heaven also sells the Ashley Iles mk.2 cabinetmaker's chisels which are made in the UK and are probably the best bench chisels you can buy today, bar none. I have a part set of those Ashley Iles chisels as well as quite a few old chisels and the Iles chisels hold an edge as well as any of the traditional chisels I own, with none of the potential flaws you get in old chisels (see below). They are also the thinnest bevel edge chisels made today which makes them a better choice for dovetailing and the like
Apart from avoiding chisels which are worn out, pitted or not flat another of the problems of buying old chisels is that they invariably need regrinding (this is NOT the same as honing them) to form an edge which can then be honed, which without some form of powered grinder (even a hand powered bench grinder) is a drudge task - new chisels come ready ground to the correct angle and generally just need honing (to the secondary bevel angle) and maybe have the backs polished to get you started - so maybe 5 minutes work in all. I feel that for a beginner this is probably a better bet.
There are numerous techniques for sharpening including (but not exclusively) traditional oil stones (Norton, Carborundum) which I started out with years ago, Japanese waterstones, diamond honing plates, "scary sharp", etc. You may find the following video interesting as the guy demonstrates using "scary sharp", which is a cheap way to try things out:
The honing jig he is using looks like an Eclipse#36 (nowadays sold as the Spear & Jackson 94-360R when it's in stock)
or one of the many "knock off" versions on the market these days, often for under a tenner (although they may require a bit of a touch-up with a file to start with). I've tended to give apprentices one of those as sort of "training wheels" when they start sharpening stuff as they take a lot of the uncertainty out of the sharpening process for a novice.
Whilst I started with a Norton combination stone and a Carborundum stone, and I went through a waterstone phase (fashionable at the time, but wear hollow very quickly and are a lot of work to maintain) before "graduating" to "scary sharp", I have since moved to diamond hones, partly because for site work they are a lot more practical.
My own diamond hones came from ITS who offer them at sale price several times through the year (maybe worth looking out for if you are in the market) and are 2-sided combi "stones" in 300/600 and 1000/1200 grits. I use them with a refined paraffin honing fluid which doesn't smell as bad as pure paraffin (water, that some people recommend can cause rusting if you don't thoroughly dry and oil the hones at the end of every session). On site I often use either WD-40 or 3-in-1 oil, as available. I went for the biggest ones I could get, 8 x 3in, because I also use them to hone my plane irons which are up to 2-5/8in wide and I find wide irons are a bit awkward to handle on a narrow stone. I am getting a little wary of the cheaper diamond hones as the life span can be very variable and some have thin plastic backings - a diamond hone with a substantial steel backing plate is always a better bet
The whole thing about "keeping an edge" is relative. Get a good chisel sharp when you are working a mild timber like knot-free redwood pine or cherry and you can work for an hour or more without the need to touch up the chisel - but on some really hard oak or birds eye maple you might have to give the chisel a quick touch-up as often as every 6 or 7 strokes. What is true is that little and often is always better than using a chisel or a plane iron until the darned thing is so blunt it won't cut butter.
BTW that is what the whole primary/secondary bevel (sharpen/hone) thing is about - for general use you sharpen a chisel at about 25° (the primary bevel then hone it to about 30° (the secondary bevel angle), but that secondary bevel only needs to be 1 to 2mm wide to begin with. The idea is that you reduce the amount of time it takes to hone out a cutting edge over doing a single full length 30° bevel. As you hone the chisel during use (to keep it sharp) the secondary bevel will get bigger until you reach the point where you need to regrind the primary bevel. Simple really
I'm in agreement with not going mad and buying a "full" set all at once (a set of Ashley Iles will cost over £200). It's probably better to start out with say 6, 12, 18 and 25mm chisels and add to that as and when you need them. Good chisels don't come cheap, but last a lifetime, so get them a canvass chisel roll and wipe them with an oily rag every time you put them away. In answer to which brand?
Good luck!
being a bit soft they can be rehoned quickly on site and the through tangs with striking caps on top mean that they can be driven with a hammer - not something you should ever do with "good" chisels, for which you really need a wooden mallet (source Crown Tools or Joseph Marples, both in Sheffield). So a chisel which is good for one set of tasks may not be the best for others
The choice of bench chisels actually made in the UK these days is very limited with the last remaining makes being Crown, Robert Sorby, Henry Taylor, Ashley Iles, Stanley (the Sweetheart range, although production has apparently now gone to Brazil, so not sure how good they will be) and Irwin-Marples (now just a brand - the chisels are now made in China and are being sold on their pre-2000 reputation). Of those the fitrst four names are the "premium" brands. There are also some better quality Continental makers still on the market here including Narex (Czech) and 2-Cherries or Kirschen (Wilhelm Schmidt, Germany). There are also some Japanese chisels which some people swear by; I tried a small set of Japanese chisels from Roger's about 40 years ago but found them fussy to maintain and unsuitable for hardwoods like oak (too brittle, chipped too easily and were then a lot more work to sharpen), but excellent on softwoods and mild hardwoods.
If you want something new I recommend you go and have a look at Workshop Heaven website for bench chisels. They sell the Czech-made Narex chisels which have garnered quite a good reputation for reasonable quality at a reasonable price in recent years. Workshop Heaven also sells the Ashley Iles mk.2 cabinetmaker's chisels which are made in the UK and are probably the best bench chisels you can buy today, bar none. I have a part set of those Ashley Iles chisels as well as quite a few old chisels and the Iles chisels hold an edge as well as any of the traditional chisels I own, with none of the potential flaws you get in old chisels (see below). They are also the thinnest bevel edge chisels made today which makes them a better choice for dovetailing and the like
Apart from avoiding chisels which are worn out, pitted or not flat another of the problems of buying old chisels is that they invariably need regrinding (this is NOT the same as honing them) to form an edge which can then be honed, which without some form of powered grinder (even a hand powered bench grinder) is a drudge task - new chisels come ready ground to the correct angle and generally just need honing (to the secondary bevel angle) and maybe have the backs polished to get you started - so maybe 5 minutes work in all. I feel that for a beginner this is probably a better bet.
There are numerous techniques for sharpening including (but not exclusively) traditional oil stones (Norton, Carborundum) which I started out with years ago, Japanese waterstones, diamond honing plates, "scary sharp", etc. You may find the following video interesting as the guy demonstrates using "scary sharp", which is a cheap way to try things out:
The honing jig he is using looks like an Eclipse#36 (nowadays sold as the Spear & Jackson 94-360R when it's in stock)
or one of the many "knock off" versions on the market these days, often for under a tenner (although they may require a bit of a touch-up with a file to start with). I've tended to give apprentices one of those as sort of "training wheels" when they start sharpening stuff as they take a lot of the uncertainty out of the sharpening process for a novice.
Whilst I started with a Norton combination stone and a Carborundum stone, and I went through a waterstone phase (fashionable at the time, but wear hollow very quickly and are a lot of work to maintain) before "graduating" to "scary sharp", I have since moved to diamond hones, partly because for site work they are a lot more practical.
My own diamond hones came from ITS who offer them at sale price several times through the year (maybe worth looking out for if you are in the market) and are 2-sided combi "stones" in 300/600 and 1000/1200 grits. I use them with a refined paraffin honing fluid which doesn't smell as bad as pure paraffin (water, that some people recommend can cause rusting if you don't thoroughly dry and oil the hones at the end of every session). On site I often use either WD-40 or 3-in-1 oil, as available. I went for the biggest ones I could get, 8 x 3in, because I also use them to hone my plane irons which are up to 2-5/8in wide and I find wide irons are a bit awkward to handle on a narrow stone. I am getting a little wary of the cheaper diamond hones as the life span can be very variable and some have thin plastic backings - a diamond hone with a substantial steel backing plate is always a better bet
The whole thing about "keeping an edge" is relative. Get a good chisel sharp when you are working a mild timber like knot-free redwood pine or cherry and you can work for an hour or more without the need to touch up the chisel - but on some really hard oak or birds eye maple you might have to give the chisel a quick touch-up as often as every 6 or 7 strokes. What is true is that little and often is always better than using a chisel or a plane iron until the darned thing is so blunt it won't cut butter.
BTW that is what the whole primary/secondary bevel (sharpen/hone) thing is about - for general use you sharpen a chisel at about 25° (the primary bevel then hone it to about 30° (the secondary bevel angle), but that secondary bevel only needs to be 1 to 2mm wide to begin with. The idea is that you reduce the amount of time it takes to hone out a cutting edge over doing a single full length 30° bevel. As you hone the chisel during use (to keep it sharp) the secondary bevel will get bigger until you reach the point where you need to regrind the primary bevel. Simple really
I'm in agreement with not going mad and buying a "full" set all at once (a set of Ashley Iles will cost over £200). It's probably better to start out with say 6, 12, 18 and 25mm chisels and add to that as and when you need them. Good chisels don't come cheap, but last a lifetime, so get them a canvass chisel roll and wipe them with an oily rag every time you put them away. In answer to which brand?
Good luck!
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Firstly, big thanks for that mine of information!
I'll get 3 or 4 of the Ashley Iles bench chisels as you suggested.
I think getting diamond homes with a thicker backing sounds sensible. I presume these aren't the Vaunt ones. Would you be able to say which ones you'd recommend and where I can get them? The crazy sharp YouTube video shows him use 3000 sand paper. Do 3000 diamond homes exist?
Regarding the honing Spear & Jackson 94-360R jig, it is out of stock as you say. I can look for it or wait, but if that fails are there other good jogs that are as good
I'll get 3 or 4 of the Ashley Iles bench chisels as you suggested.
I think getting diamond homes with a thicker backing sounds sensible. I presume these aren't the Vaunt ones. Would you be able to say which ones you'd recommend and where I can get them? The crazy sharp YouTube video shows him use 3000 sand paper. Do 3000 diamond homes exist?
Regarding the honing Spear & Jackson 94-360R jig, it is out of stock as you say. I can look for it or wait, but if that fails are there other good jogs that are as good
D
Deleted member 174758
You'd have thought so, wouldn't you, but I've always done mortises on site with either bevel edge chisels or on bigger 'oles a couple of framing chisels I have, whereas on the bench I've always had mortise chisels (both "pig stickers" and sash mortise chisels), so I was interested to find this Paul Sellars video which sort of debunks that theory:
The two chisels used are a "pig sticker" (heavy bolstered mortise chisel) first, the way I was taught, and what looks like a Marples "Blue Chip" (which he calls a "Record") bevel edge chisel second. Note that the mortise chisel has only a single bevel (no secondary bevel) and is ground at a a steeper (blunter) angle - 30 to 35° which reduces the tendency of the edge of the chisel to crumble. Note that the transition from the bevel to the top face of the chisel is also curved, not an angle. From about 6:00 he chops out a mortise with - notice how much faster it is, 3-1/2 minutes for the bevel edge chisel vs. about 5 minutes for the "pig sticker", in oak. Quite surprising, really.
To the OP: note that the bottoms of the mortises aren't perfect - they really don't need to be. Also the modern versions of those Blue Vhip chisels are Chinese made and less than wonderful I feel. You might find Sellars a useful source of training material for technique, too
D
Deleted member 174758
Vaunt are an ITS brand. Thought I'd posted a link(?) There are other brands, such as DMT and Trend, but they cost a lot more.
No, at least in the larger sizes. AFAIK 1200 is about as far as it goes in the UK, although DMT do sell a 4000 grit diamond hone in the USA, I've yet to see anyone here offering it. In the initial phases I'd practice getting a chisel sharp to 1200 first - if you want to go above that you need to resort either to using "scary sharp" techniques or using waterstones. But honestly, avoid the waterstones - like Japanese chisels I find they require almost a monk like devotion to maintaining them.
You can just buy a Draper or a Faithfull guide and tune it, TBH even the Eclipse/Spear & Jackson has always needed a bit of fettling:
I know that seems like a lot of faffing around, but for a tenner and a wee bit of work with a file (ideally an aluminium file - what he calls a "chipbreaker file", but an ordinary coarse cut mill file does almost as well) you get a really good honing guide. The only better guide is a Veritas mk.2 honing guide which will set you back £50 to £60, or a Lie-Nielsen at £125 for the honing guide (phew!). As a beginner I'd go the cheaper route until I was sure of what I wanted to do
A lot of woodworking isn't about how much money you can throw at it, although many manufacturers and well-healed amateurs would have you believe otherwise. It is more about how much you can do yourself - from building your own bench and even some of your own tools (such as a bench hook, mitre guides, mortising guides, clamps, etc) to all sorts of other problem solving. That's what makes it interesting - at least to me
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If you are experienced and know what you are doing then yes you could probably cut a mortice with a sharpened spoon not just bevelled chisels. But in the context of someone learning or DIYing, a mortice chisel with its hefty blade and square edges will be advantageous.
D
Deleted member 174758
I'm just off to sharpen a spoon to test out your theory... 
