Recommendation for a set of chisels for wodwork

[^woody^]

I'm just off to sharpen a spoon to test out your theory...

Experiment with the hone angle

 

[Yukster]

Vaunt are an ITS brand. Thought I'd posted a link(?) There are other brands, such as DMT and Trend, but they cost a lot more.


No, at least in the larger sizes. AFAIK 1200 is about as far as it goes in the UK, although DMT do sell a 4000 grit diamond hone in the USA, I've yet to see anyone here offering it. In the initial phases I'd practice getting a chisel sharp to 1200 first - if you want to go above that you need to resort either to using "scary sharp" techniques or using waterstones. But honestly, avoid the waterstones - like Japanese chisels I find they require almost a monk like devotion to maintaining them.


You can just buy a Draper or a Faithfull guide and tune it, TBH even the Eclipse/Spear & Jackson has always needed a bit of fettling:

I know that seems like a lot of faffing around, but for a tenner and a wee bit of work with a file (ideally an aluminium file - what he calls a "chipbreaker file", but an ordinary coarse cut mill file does almost as well) you get a really good honing guide. The only better guide is a Veritas mk.2 honing guide which will set you back £50 to £60, or a Lie-Nielsen at £125 for the honing guide (phew!). As a beginner I'd go the cheaper route until I was sure of what I wanted to do

A lot of woodworking isn't about how much money you can throw at it, although many manufacturers and well-healed amateurs would have you believe otherwise. It is more about how much you can do yourself - from building your own bench and even some of your own tools (such as a bench hook, mitre guides, mortising guides, clamps, etc) to all sorts of other problem solving. That's what makes it interesting - at least to me

Is this the hone you mean? https://www.axminstertools.com/veritas-mk-ii-honing-system-200810. Granted, it is more expensive but it looks good quality and is easy to use and set.

 

[^woody^]

There is nothing simpler, or possibly better than a simple honing guide.

 

[opps]

A couple of years ago Screwfix were selling the honing guide plus oil and stone with chisels for the same price as the chisels on their own.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Is this the hone you mean? https://www.axminstertools.com/veritas-mk-ii-honing-system-200810. Granted, it is more expensive but it looks good quality and is easy to use and set.

Yes, they are good and very repeatable and easy to set (I know because I have one, oh the shame - Woody will never let me live this down). You can use one to hone chisels/plane angles at an angle consistently (for skews) which you can't do with an Eclipse-type jig (but TBH that isn't a good reason for buying one when you start out - you may never need that facility), and if you ever want to learn how to do a cambered blade (again, not that likely) you can get a cambered roller for it, too. Neither of those on their own, or even together, are reasons for buying one. I suggested the Eclipse as I thought you might want to start... simpler?...

 

[Diver Fred]

Not wishing to disagree with J&K info and thoughts but I'll offer the guidance what my mentor* told me when I started out with woodwork and needing to keep tools sharp;

Buy a 'cheap' set of Chisels, honing guide and stone - nowadays I'll change the stone to a diamond plate. When you can sharpen those consistantly then is the time to buy better quality.

So for a set of Chisels** and honing guide have a look at these - for silly price they are more than usable.

The diamond plate I'd suggest this but not at the list price - it's less than half price on Amzn. The german supermarkets do sell the 'Box' (e.g these) stones (200/300/400/600 grit) for an affordable price occaisonally. Alternatively this.

* my mentor was the chippy apprentised to my late fathers apprentise.
** I have a set of 3 of those and use them when on site rather than the expensive Marples 'lolipops' that have in my fathers tools. They stay sharp long enough to hang 6 internal doors, soft enough to sharpen (grind and hone) quickly. Gives so much confidence when learning.

 

[blup]

I use the Bahco 424P chisels, they came super sharp, so just need touching up now and again, currently I use the scary sharp method with the self adhesive abrasive paper from Axminster. When they need re-honing they get professionally re-ground.

Blup

 

[Deleted member 174758]

You aren't disagreeing at all. What I would point out to you that the set you link to has a honing jig included which is a copy of the old Eclipse 36 honing jig, and to quote myself:

...Eclipse#36 (nowadays sold as the Spear & Jackson 94-360R when it's in stock) - or one of the many "knock off" versions on the market these days, often for under a tenner...

From what he writes the OP already seems to have some chisels (or maybe I have misread that) and if so why buy more cheap chisels? I agree that I didn't say go and buy a set of cheap chisels, but equally I didn't say go and buy the most expensive (Western) chisels you can lay your hands on, which BTW have got to be the Blue Spruce chisels that make Lie-Nielsens seem reasonable, and my own Ashley Iles tools seem positively cheap in comparison (which they aren't). If you are thinking affordable chisels I think I'd recommend a set of Stanley FatMax chisels at about £12 a pop (or £36 a set) as a better bet - more durable than most, but more to the point, they have a resale value on eBay or the like, and at least you can guarantee you'll get an edge on them which with some of the stuff people bring to me is damned nigh impossible (although the Lidl specials are surprisingly good - chalk one up for Woody). As I stated about the Stanleys, my every day tools:

For an environment where I often abuse chisels they are OK - but being slightly soft they don't hold an edge as well as a "proper" cabinet chisel...

In terms of the "box" honing sets - I have tried them in the past and been a bit disappointed because they are a bit small for plane irons, they are on a plastic base and my, do they wear out fast (at least the Faithful ones one of the apprentices bought did). But I did start by mentioning both combination stones (Norton and Carborundum, both good makes) as well as the easiest way I've come across for a beginner to get a sharp edge, "scary sharp"

I also said:

A lot of woodworking isn't about how much money you can throw at it, although many manufacturers and well-healed amateurs would have you believe otherwise. It is more about how much you can do yourself...

I tried not to lead the OP to a particular approach by saying "you must buy this or that", and if I have mislead I apologise, but equally when asked about something I have experience of (like the Veritas honing jig or the cheap Faithfull hone "box") I will try to give an honest opinion. I do feel that it is generally better to set a budget as a starting point and see if you can get what you need within that budget

 

[Yukster]

Yes, they are good and very repeatable and easy to set (I know because I have one, oh the shame - Woody will never let me live this down). You can use one to hone chisels/plane angles at an angle consistently (for skews) which you can't do with an Eclipse-type jig (but TBH that isn't a good reason for buying one when you start out - you may never need that facility), and if you ever want to learn how to do a cambered blade (again, not that likely) you can get a cambered roller for it, too. Neither of those on their own or even together, are reasons for buying one. I suggested the Eclipse as I thought you might want to start... simpler?...

As you may have gathered by now, I am not one for doing things simply .

You're right. I do have a few chisels and I plan to practice my sharpening skills on those and get additional ones as and when I need them.

I like the look of the Veritas Mark II jig so I think I am going to get it. It just looks the part

I will give these Vaunt diamond sharpening stones a go. Do I need to get the diamond sharpening stone dock? What refined paraffin honing fluid do you use. I see lots of pastes and fluids but I have no idea which one is the one you're referring to.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Do I need to get the diamond sharpening stone dock?

No. What I use is a piece of that rubberised anti-slip mesh you get for carpets and table mats, like this stuff. We had a bit left over from doing some work at the MIL's a few years back, so I swiped a bit for the stones and a bigger bit as an anti-slip mat for routing. At work I've used a Spontex rubberised cloth when I forgot to take the grippy mat in. TBH I think cheap and chearful does just as well as the fancy stands some people sell

What refined paraffin honing fluid do you use. I see lots of pastes and fluids but I have no idea which one is the one you're referring to.

It's some industrial diamond lapping fluid I got a few years back for £20 (a gallon) which I am still using despite having sold loads of it to other guys I've worked with. Despite the name it is fundamentally just paraffin (which is what I originally started with) that has been refined to remove most of the smell, no additives or diamonds/abrasives in it, and as I said, at work I'll resort to 3-in-1 oil spray or WD40 instead if I'm feeling too lazy to walk to the van to get some. The alternatives work just as well and you can get little cans from the pound shop which last quite a while. All you are after is something which will wash or float off the metal swarf from the top of the honing plate. Water will do this, but in my environment it is a no-no because I can't guarantee drying and oiling hones before they go in the van for potentially several weeks and I hate having to derust hones before I start using them (which I believe is not good for the hones, either). I think the nearest in small quantities to the stuff I have would be the Trend diamond abrasive lapping fluid which to my mind seems surprisingly dear

 

[Yukster]

No. What I use is a piece of that rubberised anti-slip mesh you get for carpets and table mats, like this stuff. We had a bit left over from doing some work at the MIL's a few years back, so I swiped a bit for the stones and a bigger bit as an anti-slip mat for routing. At work I've used a Spontex rubberised cloth when I forgot to take the grippy mat in. TBH I think cheap and chearful does just as well as the fancy stands some people sell

I have some of that material. Thanks

It's some industrial diamond lapping fluid I got a few years back for £20 (a gallon) which I am still using despite having sold loads of it to other guys I've worked with. Despite the name it is fundamentally just paraffin (which is what I originally started with) that has been refined to remove most of the smell, no additives or diamonds/abrasives in it, and as I said, at work I'll resort to 3-in-1 oil spray or WD40 instead if I'm feeling too lazy to walk to the van to get some. The alternatives work just as well and you can get little cans from the pound shop which last quite a while. All you are after is something which will wash or float off the metal swarf from the top of the honing plate. Water will do this, but in my environment it is a no-no because I can't guarantee drying and oiling hones before they go in the van for potentially several weeks and I hate having to derust hones before I start using them (which I believe is not good for the hones, either). I think the nearest in small quantities to the stuff I have would be the Trend diamond abrasive lapping fluid which to my mind seems surprisingly dear

Thanks. Axminster have an equivalent product that is cheaper so i will get that.

 

[Yukster]

The Vaunt diamond stones sell currently for £36. Is that the normal price? How much has it been sold for when reduced?

 

[Yukster]

My own diamond hones came from ITS who offer them at sale price several times through the year (maybe worth looking out for if you are in the market) and are 2-sided combi "stones" in 300/600 and 1000/1200 grits. I use them with a refined paraffin honing fluid which doesn't smell as bad as pure paraffin (water, that some people recommend can cause rusting if you don't thoroughly dry and oil the hones at the end of every session). On site I often use either WD-40 or 3-in-1 oil, as available. I went for the biggest ones I could get, 8 x 3in, because I also use them to hone my plane irons which are up to 2-5/8in wide and I find wide irons are a bit awkward to handle on a narrow stone. I am getting a little wary of the cheaper diamond hones as the life span can be very variable and some have thin plastic backings - a diamond hone with a substantial steel backing plate is always a better bet

The whole thing about "keeping an edge" is relative. Get a good chisel sharp when you are working a mild timber like knot-free redwood pine or cherry and you can work for an hour or more without the need to touch up the chisel - but on some really hard oak or birds eye maple you might have to give the chisel a quick touch-up as often as every 6 or 7 strokes. What is true is that little and often is always better than using a chisel or a plane iron until the darned thing is so blunt it won't cut butter.

BTW that is what the whole primary/secondary bevel (sharpen/hone) thing is about - for general use you sharpen a chisel at about 25° (the primary bevel then hone it to about 30° (the secondary bevel angle), but that secondary bevel only needs to be 1 to 2mm wide to begin with. The idea is that you reduce the amount of time it takes to hone out a cutting edge over doing a single full length 30° bevel. As you hone the chisel during use (to keep it sharp) the secondary bevel will get bigger until you reach the point where you need to regrind the primary bevel. Simple really

I'm in agreement with not going mad and buying a "full" set all at once (a set of Ashley Iles will cost over £200). It's probably better to start out with say 6, 12, 18 and 25mm chisels and add to that as and when you need them. Good chisels don't come cheap, but last a lifetime, so get them a canvass chisel roll and wipe them with an oily rag every time you put them away. In answer to which brand?

Good luck!

The Vaunt diamond stones sell currently for £36. Is that the normal price? How much has it been sold for when reduced?

 

[Yukster]

I use the Bahco 424P chisels, they came super sharp, so just need touching up now and again, currently, I use the scary sharp method with the self adhesive abrasive paper from Axminster. When they need re-honing they get professionally re-ground.

Blup

Axminster sell the self-adhesive sandpaper in 600, 1250, and 2500 grit only. Is the 600 course enough and is the 2500 fine enough or did you get other ones elsewhere?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Axminster sell the self-adhesive sandpaper in 600, 1250, and 2500 grit only. Is the 600 course enough and is the 2500 fine enough or did you get other ones elsewhere?

You don't really need self-adhesive sanding paper - a can of spray adhesive and ordinary cheap carborundum paper will do the job just as well (Halfords will sell you a selection of papers for a few quid). Basic grinding out of nicks requires a 300 grit (150 grit for deep nicks), followed by a 500/600 grit, then 1000 grit and finally 1200/1500. Halfords sell grits up to about 2500 I seem to recall. TBH beyond 1500 I doubt that you'll really see any difference as a beginner.

Not sure how much I paid for the ITS diamond hones - in any case I've had mine for more than 5 years and prices have moved on since then. Certainly £30 to £40 seems to be a reasonable amount to pay for them IMHO