replacing my thermal store and boiler…Help in specifying
- Thread starter cw018666
- Start date
-
- Tags
- boiler cheap thermal store vailant
- Status
Sludge comes from ferrous being around, like radiators and the old cast-iron boilers, that is why inhibitor is poured into systems, to prevent build up. There is no ferrous inside a Systemate. The same water stays inside the cylinder and goes nowhere and is just a heat transfer medium. It is heated via a coil and the hot water to the taps uses a plate heat exchanger, all inside the Systemate box. The one I am referring to has run since around 1996-99 fault free. Highly impressive. It belts out hot water at high mains pressure and in great volume and he has never run out of hot water the reheat is so fast. It is a neat big box. If I had one I would be reluctant to get rid of it and get it fixed. All the parts are behind the door and a doddle to get at.
You advice about a large combi boiler is also sound. Cylinders take space and if you need the space then a combi can be a great help.
It looks like a shark plumber is trying to take this guy for a ride.
Last edited:
Sorry Ray I've just had a look at this unit & you're right it's not a sludge bucket - there's two secondary heat exchangers.
For a condensing boiler replacement I can understand why the Plumber recommended an unvented cylinder etc. The Gledhill is not very compatible with a condensing boiler - sits at too high a temperature. Gledhill always undersized their HW SS plate heat exchangers & required a higher temperature to get the correct HW temperature rise.
With condensing boilers your optimum is for a low return temperature.
The Systemate I know of was originally fitted in a new housing complex with a normal boiler, an Ideal, in the late 1990s. Last year the boiler went belly up developing leaks and he now has a Vaillant, I don't know what model. It works just the same and pours out vapour from the flue when reheating the Systemate. He said the gas bills dropped when he put in the new boiler.
There are many of these Systemates around him with the neighbours knowing a guy who does know how to fix them. Many are on contracts and he says they have had no problems with BG. I recall seeing a LED display on the pcb board. I would deduct it gives out error codes like boilers.
In his place the Systemate is fitted in the middle of the place, not near an outside wall, and the unit has no overflow, which I thought was neat. He fills the top up tank on top of the big box once a year if it needs it, with a tap fitted over the little tank. He was told when moving in to make sure the top up tank has some inhibitor once every 3 or 4 years. Very little heat is given off as it is so well insulated.
I believe Gledhill stopped making them after the Credit Crunch as work dried up. A shame really. I like it because it is a nice square box and no pipes seen, except for the three way valve. Things can be put on top unlike a cylinder. Does anyone make anything like this these days?
There are many of these Systemates around him with the neighbours knowing a guy who does know how to fix them. Many are on contracts and he says they have had no problems with BG. I recall seeing a LED display on the pcb board. I would deduct it gives out error codes like boilers.
In his place the Systemate is fitted in the middle of the place, not near an outside wall, and the unit has no overflow, which I thought was neat. He fills the top up tank on top of the big box once a year if it needs it, with a tap fitted over the little tank. He was told when moving in to make sure the top up tank has some inhibitor once every 3 or 4 years. Very little heat is given off as it is so well insulated.
I believe Gledhill stopped making them after the Credit Crunch as work dried up. A shame really. I like it because it is a nice square box and no pipes seen, except for the three way valve. Things can be put on top unlike a cylinder. Does anyone make anything like this these days?
Gledhill went t.ts up a few years ago & a 'new Co' was formed. Their Thermalstore type units are awful!! Sludge buckets that leak like a 12 week puppy!!
The Systemate was a drab grey colour. He painted it in some heat resistant paint a cream colour. It looks a lot nicer 
I know nothing of the current Gledhill products. But they still sell the parts of their old range. In the past 20 years or so since this Systemate was fitted more powerful combis have been introduced. I would look towards one of those rather than cylinders.
I know nothing of the current Gledhill products. But they still sell the parts of their old range. In the past 20 years or so since this Systemate was fitted more powerful combis have been introduced. I would look towards one of those rather than cylinders.
The main problem, apart from sludge, is that after about 9-10 years they start to leak.
There are two styles, one boiler heated and the other electrically heated. The latter can be replaced by an unvented cylinder although running the vent pipe can sometimes be a problem.
Tony
There are two styles, one boiler heated and the other electrically heated. The latter can be replaced by an unvented cylinder although running the vent pipe can sometimes be a problem.
Tony
The Systemate does not produce sludge, as in previous posts. I know one about 20 years old and it is still going strong.
So Ray, do you work in the heating trade?
Do you really have experience on any other stores apart from that one?
Yesterday I saw a Morris 1000 on the road.
Does that mean that all of them have lasted 60 years? Or could it have been a carefully preserved collector's car?
Do you really have experience on any other stores apart from that one?
Yesterday I saw a Morris 1000 on the road.
Does that mean that all of them have lasted 60 years? Or could it have been a carefully preserved collector's car?
Tony even for you that is a cracker " The latter can be replaced by an unvented cylinder although running the vent pipe can sometimes be a problem." if it is unvented where is the vent pipe ?????
Agile, I know the Systemates do not produce sludge or leak after few years as you erroneously claim. I am going by a friends and the many Systemates in homes around him. By your reasoning every one would have been replaced by now. They have not been and are working perfectly.
He fitted a drencher shower about 5 or 6 years ago. I have used the shower a number of times. I am greatly impressed at the flow of hot water and pressure. It seems to never run out of hot water. When the temperature drops in the Systemate it brings in the boiler and it pours all its heat into the cylinder. It is a shame no one makes one of these nice boxes any more. Well his looks nice now, that he has painted it cream.
He fitted a drencher shower about 5 or 6 years ago. I have used the shower a number of times. I am greatly impressed at the flow of hot water and pressure. It seems to never run out of hot water. When the temperature drops in the Systemate it brings in the boiler and it pours all its heat into the cylinder. It is a shame no one makes one of these nice boxes any more. Well his looks nice now, that he has painted it cream.
First thing is most of the new builds with a boilermate and suprima 80 usually feed about a 5 bed 3 bath house, so IMO a 35kw combi would not be suitable. Second is if you take the front off the boilermate on the pcb by the little LED display there are two little buttons. If you scroll through it will give you temperature readings from the thermistors so you can see what temp the boilermate thinks the hot water is. Third thing is make sure you boiler stat is set on maximum and finally put your hand around the hot water outlet pipe after the plate heat exchanger to see what temperature the water is. You may have a faulty shower valve that is causing the problem with your hot water not being hot enough.
OP biggest problem that people had when buying properties with thermal stores is that the installers seldom took into account the volume of water in the thermal store when calculating how much inhibitor to add to the system after they allegedly flushed it, Thermal stores are a decent system if installed and looked after properly, not many heating engineers are acquainted with the ins and outs of them but they are no worse than any other system of storing hot water, even though the stored Hot water never comes out of a hot water tap, it is just a different way of doing things and not ant worse that any other method
Last edited:
gazdaz36, a Boilermate it is not a Systemate which is all automatic, controlled from a pcb which had about three temperature sensors. When I first saw it I was amazed that there was little mechanical stuff in it. Just two or three pumps and a plate heat exchanger all controlled by a pcb. No conventional thermostat either. It raised and lowered the set temperature of the stored hot water by itsef. It set the temperatue drop delay to bring in the boiler to reheat to raise efficiency. It adjusted the pump speed to set the hot water temperature at the taps and other things I can't remember. I was mightily impressed at the time I first saw it and it was explained to me thinking plumbing had caught up with the electronic age. The instructions are in the door pocket explaining it all. With all iside the big box only a physically, smaller, cheaper, boiler without a pump could be fitted inside the kitchen cupboard.
It is such a great idea I can't see why they are still not made by some maker. Ignorance of them by jobbing plumbers I am sure did not help. I am sure most taking the front door off and seeing what was behind would run a mile.
This one was sized for a bathroom and a shower room.
EDIT: I just remembered, the pcb decided if to switch out the heating rads pump to reheat the cylinder quickly. Very smart indeed. We have gone backwards.
It is such a great idea I can't see why they are still not made by some maker. Ignorance of them by jobbing plumbers I am sure did not help. I am sure most taking the front door off and seeing what was behind would run a mile.
This one was sized for a bathroom and a shower room.
EDIT: I just remembered, the pcb decided if to switch out the heating rads pump to reheat the cylinder quickly. Very smart indeed. We have gone backwards.
Last edited:
With a bit of thought it can be arranged for it to supply taps from the "stored" hot water....
Last edited:
- Status