Sound Bar Advice

[Hysteresis]

Hi ETAF, I am not looking for a high performance Hi-Fi. Cinema sound system, all I am trying to achieve is a reasonably good sound output from my 2021 LG OLED TV, as the inbuilt speakers are OK but not by any sense of the imagination reasonable.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So just buy one of the about 4 models that's been recommended you like the look of/fits your budget, I doubt you'll be disappointed with any of them, buy it from Amazon if you can and just return it the next day if you're that disappointed with it. I'd avoid the budget one you linked to without the subwoofer for reasons already explained. The thread's not really going anywhere new now.

 

[Hysteresis]

So just buy one of the about 4 models that's been recommended you like the look of/fits your budget, I doubt you'll be disappointed with any of them, buy it from Amazon if you can and just return it the next day if you're that disappointed with it. I'd avoid the budget one you linked to without the subwoofer for reasons already explained. The thread's not really going anywhere new now.

The thread has been very useful and educational for me. ETAF is helping with specific choices after which I will do as you suggest.
Thanks for your help.

 

[ETAF]

Am I being to demanding od such a cheap sound bar?

No, you have the list of wants and also Mrs h requirement (which my experience would be a big factor)

Mrs Hysteresis has a big issue with a sub woofer both in size and wiring requirements so I would need to have any sub woofer in the sound bar.

So you can eliminate the separate subwoofer

You need to have large speakers for base , hence the subwoofer, so as you have said, you need to look for a soundbar that has larger speakers available also note the bass is not directional , hence why a subwoofer seperate box works. One of the tricks of the 70';s was to introduce a bass radiator, this enable a much smaller speaker to produce a better base response. And the TCL had those as did the soundbar recommended by @Lucid , any reason you did not include Yamaha SR-C20A on your shortlist, it looks very good on youtube and also on the reviews , and sold via RicherSounds , which is a very good Audio/TV outlet. - I have always found those guys to be really helpful, great advice, when i used to advise people on TV's Hifi , etc a few years back, they have good service and also provided a lot of aftersales support. At least the ones near where i used to live. They may have some soundbars on display, I have known them to setup the sonos system specifically to display and review in the past.

Looking at things like the manufacturers website, youtube and amazon reviews

Hisense HS 214 2.1
Looking at the reviews , and youtube , this seems like a good value bar - it has Arc , the light at the front might be annoying
But the subwoofer at the bottom may make it sound a bit better than a sound bar without one, although to get bass you need to move a lot of air and need the size, hence why the subwoofer are separate in a bigger box.
80W power - wont go into all the different ratings - but the only real value to compare is rms -
https://global.hisense.com/soundbar/2-1ch-all-in-one-soundbar-hs214

Samsung HW S60s, - Not sure if this was a typo and the s at the end should be an A , as i could not find an S
Samsung HW S60a - well over budget £350

LG SK1
Not a great comparison, but on youtube, played through my TV and Sonos bar theis did not sound great compared to the others
Also it does not seem to have a HDMI input - just optical or 3.5mm jack, so you would need to use the optical o/p and i assume as no cables are supplied you would need to buy a cable - also make sure the TV has an optical audio out
Personally out of the 3 i probably would not look at this one.

TCL TS 8111
I think this one I should be quite good, looking at the speaker system, it uses an auxiliary radiator as well as a base speaker, which was introduced i think into the hifi market in the 70's to get better base - celestion I think introduced it, and i know then some of the smaller boxes produced some nice hifi results.
The front illuminates with words, may annoy me, but they might go off after a short while and setting i could not see.

so from your list - this is only a personal idea, and I would still recommend listening to them in a shop if you can possibly get a comparison , unlikely though
i would want to listen to the TCL TS 8111 , simply to see if the Base Aux radiator made any difference and what the tone was like overall
Then the Hisense HS 214 2.1

With regards to sync, I could not find out if they had a facility to change the delay, more expensive bars do have that settings, i know the sonos does, as i have used it.

@Lucid has asked, Do you have a Richersounds in your area ?

@Lucid mentioned the Yamaha SR-C20A https://www.richersounds.com/yamaha-src20a-black.html

Which also has the Passive Radiators for base - i would certainly add that to the list
Dimensions WxHxD 600 x 64 x 94 - so under your height of 94mm @64mm

@Lucid also mentioned the HDMI Arc will not actually turn the unit off , when the TV is switched off. However, I think the Yamaha has HDMI-CEC, which not only allows the volume to be controlled from the TV remote , but it also switches the unit OFF - just read in one of the reviews on av forums , but I dont think the HDMI cable is included in the box.

Also do not assume all the cables needed are supplied - you may need a HDMI or Optical cable as mentioned above.

Not sure if any of that helped you at all

 

[Hysteresis]

Hi ETAF,
Thanks so much for your time and help. That was certainly a very detailed response and an education.
We do have a Richer Sounds outlet about 15 miles from me, I will be in there next week to have a look.
The video you kindly included was very interesting and the presenter seemed to be quite impresses. I am gravitation to this bar as it seems to satisfy all of my and Mrs H's requirements in size and performance and at £99 it can't be bad.
Thanks again so much for you help. Cloth Eared Nuggets such as myself need all the help we can get.
thanks again

 

[ETAF]

We do have a Richer Sounds outlet about 15 miles from me, I will be in there next week to have a look.

I would phone them first and see what they have in stock and on display , and what they may have implemented regarding covid, and if they would be prepared to put anything out for you to listen to?
Also watch out for their hours of opening , they open quite late in the day, so popping in on the way to work or back, can be disappointing to find them closed.
Where i used to live, I used Reigate a lot , I did pop by once only to discover the strange opening hours.
So do lookup your store and see the opening times, and also phone times for the actual store, no point in talking to their call centre.

Also have a listen to the Yamaha, with maybe Mrs H as well.

I found a lot of people in the shop (i worked part-time from when i was 15 to 22) used to say , i can't, would not be able to hear the difference , no point in spending a little bit more, or getting those separate things at the same price , bla bla , especially the wifes (not being sexist, just what i experienced) we had 3 sections in the shop , TV radios etc, then Mid range music centres and low end hifi, and then 3rd section high end hifi - separates mainly.
probably 7/10 times when i demonstrated a separate system , around max budget , they went for it, BUT it was the lady that tended to make that call. Often around xmas time.

 

[Lucid]

@Lucid also mentioned the HDMI Arc will not actually turn the unit off , when the TV is switched off. However, I think the Yamaha has HDMI-CEC, which not only allows the volume to be controlled from the TV remote , but it also switches the unit OFF

For clarity regarding HDMI, CEC (HDMI control) and ARC

CEC is a control and communication feature of HDMI. In order for it to work, both the source and the destination devices need to (a) have the CEC feature, and (b) both devices need to have the software selection for it enabled. It's CEC which is responsible for one device switching On/Off when another is power cycled. And it's CEC that is responsible for passing the volume control commands from a TV to a sound bar. It's also CEC that changes the source selection on my amp so that when I switch on my Sky receiver / Blu-ray 4K player / Fire TV stick or enable Home Cinema sound from my TV sub menu.

ARC does none of these things. It is a further subset feature of the HDMI development trail. ARC stands for Audio Return Channel. It is a feature that allows two-way communication via a single HDMI cable. In the normal direction from source to display, the HDMI cable carries picture and sound to the TV. In my case, if I am watching Sky then the signal goes from the Sky receiver via the AV amp and then on to the TV where I might be using the TV speakers only. If I wish to listen via the surround speakers I simply switch on the AV amp.

However, if I am watching something via the TV's own tuner or from one of its streaming apps, that's when the ARC connection comes in to play. ARC sends the sound from the TV down the same cable that was used for the Sky signal but in the opposite direction.

Where sound bars have just one HDMI connection and both the bar and TV have ARC-equipped HDMI ports, then in most cases this is just an audio-via-HDMI connection. It's ARC for sound.

For ARC to work on suitably equipped devices then HDMI CEC has to be enabled first, then the ARC connection selected on the audio device. This brings us back the HDMI CEC and why - for some devices at least - the control is not complete.

HDMI control is not a mandatory set of features; it's more of a suggested list of "what to include and how to do it". The implementation of those features is left to manufacturers. Sometimes they get things wrong. In my case, the communication around the "Turn the amp off now" feature is not correctly implemented. Maybe with a different TV, or a different audio product, or perhaps if I unplugged my BD player or the Fire TV stick then it would work. I'm not going to change the gear or start pulling plugs just to get the amp to turn off because that bit of HDMI CEC for my specific combo of gear means it doesn't work. I just pick up the damned amp remote and switch it off with that.

Summary:

HDMI commands are nothing to do with ARC. This is an audio connection feature only. HDMI commands are enabled via the CEC feature, and fingers crossed that the TV and soundbar people both got it right.


Subwoofer and bass driver ABRs

ABRs work on the anti-phase movement of the main powered driver. The main driver sits in an airtight box. When the driver moves forward in the positive phase of its travel to make a sound wave the air pressure falls a little inside the sealed box. When the signal stops or goes in to the negative phase for a sound wave then the lower air pressure helps pull the driver back to a neutral position. As the driver moves through the rest of the negative phase the air pressure inside the box builds. The driver isn't making much of a contribution to sound in the negative phase, and so the idea of using that pressure inside the sealed box to move a second unpowered speaker diaphragm forward was both smart and efficient thinking. Such a system is is known as a 1.5 speaker system. The ABR doesn't go deeper than the main driver, nor does it go as loud since it is not driven. It does make efficient use of the non-productive phase of a bass drivers travel though.