Squabbling about "not tranformers"

[ban-all-sheds]

"I know a little about ordinary transformers.
I also know a little about SMPS.
This plastic cube says "electronic transformer" on it.
My first assumption is therefore that it is a transformer (and not an SMPS)".

Not exactly a leap of surrealism, is it?

Do you really think that if you wandered about the aisles of Homebase (other sheds are available) on a Saturday afternoon, and until you were asked to leave asked the Mr. & Mrs. Average People browsing in the lighting department if they knew what a switch mode power supply was, and what issues they should be aware of when using them to power lights, you'd find many that did?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Do you really think that if you wandered about the aisles of Homebase (other sheds are available) on a Saturday afternoon, and until you were asked to leave asked the Mr. & Mrs. Average People browsing in the lighting department if they knew what a switch mode power supply was, and what issues they should be aware of when using them to power lights, you'd find many that did?

I don't know. Maybe. The sort of people who do their own lighting often do a little research first. And since technical products are marketed initially to professionals who do know about those things, I would expect the choice of words to reflect that. The DIYer feeds off the crumbs from that table.

 

[bernardgreen]

Do you really think that if you wandered about the aisles of B&Q (other sheds are available) on a Saturday afternoon, and until you were asked to leave asked the Mr. & Mrs. Average People browsing in the lighting department if they knew what a switch mode power supply was, and what issues they should be aware of when using them to power lights, you'd find many that did?

Of course the Mr and Mrs Average wouldn't know. Is that not a reason to educate them..... ? Perhaps B&Q could put posters up explaining to the public that using an SMPS packaged in a box with the words "Electronic Transformer" on it could have adverse affects on other electronic equipment in the house. B&Q won't do this it will reduce sales.

DAB radio returned as un-reliable, no fault found. Replacement DAB radio same problem of poor reception. Wall wart " transformer" for cheap LCD clock found to be radiating RF energy. CareLink telephone unit affected by RF radiation from LED table lamp ( noise on speech and suspected / assumed reduction in reliable range of the pendent call button.

 

[bernardgreen]

You have refused to even attempt to show that the ATC radio interference by the baby alarm PSU happened because it was not labelled "switch mode power supply".

are you obtuse or stupid...... It happened because it was an SMPS.

The situation arose because the user was not given the necessary knowledge that the "electronic transforner" contained an SMPS unit and that SMPS units can ( and do ) interfere with wireless commiunication.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Of course the Mr and Mrs Average wouldn't know. Is that not a reason to educate them..... ?

Of course not.

Please stop trying to evade the questions - it is not going to work, and it just makes you look more and more desperate to pretend that you don't actually know the truth.

I'll write them nice and big so that you can't later claim that you didn't see them.

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THE NEED FOR, NATURE OR EFFECTIVENESS OF, THIS EDUCATION WOULD BE IN ANY WAY DIFFERENT IF THE SUPPLIES WERE LABELLED "SWITCH MODE POWER SUPPLY" INSTEAD OF "ELECTRONIC TRANSFORMER".

Perhaps B&Q could put posters up explaining to the public that using an SMPS packaged in a box with the words "Electronic Transformer" on it could have adverse affects on other electronic equipment in the house. B&Q won't do this it will reduce sales.

Perhaps they could.

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THE USEFULNESS OF SUCH POSTERS WOULD BE IN ANY WAY DIFFERENT IF THE SUPPLIES WERE LABELLED "SWITCH MODE POWER SUPPLY" INSTEAD OF "ELECTRONIC TRANSFORMER".

DAB radio returned as un-reliable, no fault found. Replacement DAB radio same problem of poor reception. Wall wart " transformer" for cheap LCD clock found to be radiating RF energy. CareLink telephone unit affected by RF radiation from LED table lamp ( noise on speech and suspected / assumed reduction in reliable range of the pendent call button.

Jolly good.

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THOSE PROBLEMS WERE IN ANY WAY DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE SUPPLIES WERE NOT LABELLED "SWITCH MODE POWER SUPPLY".

 

[ban-all-sheds]

are you obtuse or stupid......

I think one of us is.

Me? I'm just reading what you write.

I'm just reading how you say that the "incorrect" terminology of "electronic transformer" causes confusion.

I'm just reading your elaboration of the potential concerns with SMPSs.

I'm just reading your examples of actual problems that have really occurred via the use of SMPSs

I'm not reading, no matter how many times I ask you, any explanation of why any of this confusion, any of these potential concerns, any of these actual problems, are in any way due to the lack of "correct" labelling on the supply enclosures.​

You?

It happened because it was an SMPS.

Please explain why it would not have happened had the supply been labelled as a SMPS.

The situation arose because the user was not given the necessary knowledge that the "electronic transforner" contained an SMPS unit and that SMPS units can ( and do ) interfere with wireless commiunication.

Please explain why it would not have been necessary to give him that knowledge if instead of being labelled "electronic transformer" it had been called a "switch mode power supply".


For as long as you keep using "confusion", "problems" etc as justifications for objecting to the use of the term "electronic transformer" instead of "switch mode power supply", I am going to keep asking you for an explanation of why it is the name which causes those things to happen.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't know. Maybe.

If it's "I don't know", and "Maybe", why did you say that you definitely thought it likely that Mr Average DIYer is both aware of the potential problems of switch mode power supplies and unaware that a little white box labelled "Electronic Transformer" is actually a SMPS?

The sort of people who do their own lighting often do a little research first.

Do they? What sort of research do they do?

How many times have you seen people here asking what is actually inside the little white box labelled "electronic transformer" because they know what a transformer is, and how big and heavy they are, and therefore what is actually inside the little white box cannot be a transformer?

And since technical products are marketed initially to professionals who do know about those things, I would expect the choice of words to reflect that.

I would expect a professional who did not already know that an electronic transformer was a SMPS to find out.

The DIYer feeds off the crumbs from that table.

Please explain how, if the things were labelled "switch mode power supply" the crumbs of information about the nature and issues of SMPSs would be there to be consumed, but as they are labelled "electronic transformer" there are no crumbs of information about the nature and issues of electronic transformers.

 

[bernardgreen]

Please explain why it would not have happened had the supply been labelled as a SMPS.

Beacuse the person probably would have realised that using an SMPS in the application was at best not advisable and at worst hazardous

 

[Gerrydelasel]

How many times have you seen people here asking...

What people do on here is irrelevant to the question

Do they? What sort of research do they do?

Maybe read about the different kinds of power supplies that exist? And Dr Google will tell them about transformers or SMPS aka 'drivers'. The term 'electronic transformer' may or may not come up. I haven't seen it often.

Please explain how, if the things were labelled "switch mode power supply" the crumbs of information about the nature and issues of SMPSs would be there to be consumed,

It would be a much bigger clue that what you're dealing with is radically different from an ordinary transformer. As it is, 'electronic transformer' could mean an actual transformer, or some sort of clever simulation of a transformer; either way the consumer is encouraged to think 'this presumably behaves just like an ordinary transformer, then'.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Beacuse the person probably would have realised that using an SMPS in the application was at best not advisable and at worst hazardous

I'm sorry Bernard - at this point I am going to have to say that I simply do not believe you.

I do not believe that you truly, honestly, really, genuinely think that if the wallwart for the baby alarm that caused the ATC radio interference happened because it was not labelled "switch mode power supply", and/or that the person who bought the alarm with it's wallwart power supply would have realised that using an SMPS in that application was at best not advisable and at worst hazardous.

To truly, honestly, really, genuinely think those things is so contrary to common sense, and so lacking in intelligent thought, that I do not believe that you are being honest when you claim that you do. I think that you are persisting in those ludicrous claims because you will not agree that you are wrong to ascribe these problems to the "incorrect name" given to the power supply.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What people do on here is irrelevant to the question

It absolutely is not.

It could not be more relevant.

You claimed that people who do their own lighting often do a little research first. We get lots of people here asking about lighting, and have done for years. I don't think I have once seen any of them
ask what is actually inside the little white box labelled "electronic transformer" because they know what a transformer is, and how big and heavy they are, and therefore what is actually inside the little white box cannot be a transformer.

What's happening here is that the evidence of behaviour on this site flatly contradicts your claim, so therefore you've decided to dismiss that evidence as irrelevant. Would it surprise you to learn that you won't get away with that?

Maybe read about the different kinds of power supplies that exist? And Dr Google will tell them about transformers or SMPS aka 'drivers'. The term 'electronic transformer' may or may not come up. I haven't seen it often.

I just tried a search using Google (on a PC I hardly use, and certainly never use to access this site, so there can't be any history influences) for "what is an electronic transformer". I found useful info, which if read by someone who actually understands what a SMPS is, would tell them that an "electronic transformer" is one.

It would be a much bigger clue that what you're dealing with is radically different from an ordinary transformer. As it is, 'electronic transformer' could mean an actual transformer, or some sort of clever simulation of a transformer; either way the consumer is encouraged to think 'this presumably behaves just like an ordinary transformer, then'.

I think you have a very mistaken belief of what Mr. Average DIYer's interest is in how the supply works, of how much he knows about transformers, and how diligent he would be in doing research.

So even if he is encouraged to think 'this presumably behaves just like an ordinary transformer, then', what percentage of Mr. Average DIYers do you honestly think actually know just how ordinary transformers behave?

If they saw that the little white box was labelled "Switch Mode Power Supply" and not "Electronic Transformer", what percentage of Mr. Average DIYers do you honestly think would pause to wonder if it had undesirable characteristics or potential problems of which they should make themselves aware and go off and do some research vs the percentage who would think "it's being sold to me by a retailer as being OK to power my low voltage lighting so I'll buy it"?

Look at this:

It doesn't say anything about what it is - neither a "correct" nor "incorrect" name is attached to it. What percentage of Mr. Average DIYers do you honestly think would not buy it from Screwfix (other online retailers are available) because of that?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In summary, the name is irrelevant.

No matter how much people object to the term "electronic transformer" there is no credible way to show a causal link between the use of that name instead of "switch mode power supply" and the manufacture of devices which contravene EMI regulations, or the misuse of them by people who have neither the first idea what either term means nor the slightest inclination to go and find out.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This forum could do something to provide that education.

You clearly feel strongly that such education would be valuable.

You clearly believe that you are helping by going on about this all the time, i.e. you clearly want to help.

So combine all of those, and write an article for the Wiki about electronic transformers to which people can be referred when they pop up asking why the LEDs flicker or won't light, why they are having problems dimming, why their radio buzzes etc etc.

 

[winston1]

Again although you can get transformers which fit inside the consumer unit, they have to be same make as consumer unit to maintain the type testing and have to be wired with 230 volt cable. Also they are normally AC only and limited voltages, so still likely will need an external transformer to match the door bell.

All transformers are AC only.

 

[Taylortwocities]

All transformers are AC only.

**Yawn**