Toilet conundrum

dpm_dpmartin said:
"you need a new fill valve, mate, you're in luck, I've got it on me van... oh, it wasn't that"
"you need a new flush valve, mate, you're in luck, I've got it on me van... oh, it wasn't that"
"you need a new cistern, mate, you're in luck, I've got it on me van... oh, it wasn't that"
"anyway, here's your bill for all the parts, sorry it's still doing what it did before I turned-up" :LOL:
Click to expand...

I don't carry cisterns, not many emergency plumbers would as that's a personal choice of design/fitment that the customer holds. I am also a very good plumber, in the business for many years so I wouldn't need to replace a list of things when I am standing looking at the toilet because, as I have said, plumbing is a hands on trade, therefore when you can look at, flush, touch the toilet and it's internals you can diagnose the issue. You are expecting to put a post on here and have someone diagnose the issue, tell you in a step by step way how to fix it or replace the parts and when you are given the possibilities by members here of what is wrong, you then critisise us for trying to help?!

You gave us a problem, we gave you a solution.

Just as an aside, I don't bill my customers until the work is completed, it is checked and tested by them, and they are happy. A 1 year parts and labour guarantee is given and I also have a no fix/no fee policy on much of the work I carry out. I have a very big customer base because of the way I work and I am finding your comments offensive.

By all means, let me know what your profession is.

Andy
 
My 2 pennies.
The flush valve is slightly leaking into the pan and as water goes slowly down the refill valve kicks in making the hissing sound.
By blocking the fill valve shut overnight you have proved yourself that water leaks into the pan, unless you found water on the floor.
 
I don't want to be too cocky here - just in case I come a cropper later on, but I do reckon I've fixed it!

I'll tell you what I did...

1) With the fill lever forced into the open (not letting water in) position, I managed to pull the flush valve out - it was some kind of Gerberit dated Mar 2010 - and it had 2 clips on the side that I really struggled with 'cos my hands were too big to get to them, but - eventually - I managed to rotate it a little and press them in and the whole thing just lifted out.
2) That left me with the cage / cradle, holding the overflow, all installed properly at the bottom.
3) I gave the flush valve a good clean (as per the image) and then noticed the clear-coloured rubber washer on the bottom.

Toilet-02.jpg


4) I took that off and dried it, as I was doing that I immediately noticed that there were a lot of raised bubbles on each surface - I thought that has got to be related, I mean, it's not flat, so how can it create a seal?
5) I thought I'd need to get a new washer but I took a needle and I found out I could pop them all - and some kind of liquid (could be water, I don't know) came out - I could feel it.
6) I popped them all and dried it again - putting it back on the flush valve (but I turned it the other way - just for superstition I suppose).
7) I then took the opportunity to find a 10mm hex bit and I tightened up the two bolts at the bottom of the tank - just a quarter turn only.
8) I dropped the flush valve back in its cradle.
9) I let the fill valve operate - which it did - and it stopped at the fill level and then closed off.
10) I waited a very long 5 minutes and no hissing or water (before I would wait 2 to 3 minutes and it started repeatedly).
11) I flushed again, and waited 5 minutes again - no hissing, no water.

I will check again later, when work finishes in an hour or so... but maybe the combination of these two separate actions might mean I've got away with it?
 
johnny2007 said:
My 2 pennies.
The flush valve is slightly leaking into the pan and as water goes slowly down the refill valve kicks in making the hissing sound.
By blocking the fill valve shut overnight you have proved yourself that water leaks into the pan, unless you found water on the floor.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the situation and the conclusion that I'd arrived at too. I think the test of keeping the fill valve locked into place was worth it (I don't know why this toilet doesn't have an isolation valve outside - probably to look nice?).
 
HERTS P&D said:
....and when you are given the possibilities by members here of what is wrong, you then critisise us for trying to help?!
Click to expand...

I didn't criticise you (plural)... I've only criticised you (singular). Let's face it - you did offer poor advice (and with certainty) on this one, even as a professional. In fact you actually wasted my time by sending me down a wrong path. It doesn't take much to imagine you right here, making the same mistake(s).

Let's just hope that my "make do and mend" fix works for longer than 1 hour. ;) I may easily sill have egg on my face, but, so far... total parts replaced = 0, total cost to me = some swearing and 1 can of Thatchers Blood Orange Cider (but I only pay myself later in the evening). I will be checking it in just over half-an-hour.
 
Bubbling of those seals is quite common ,done loads of them. Bursting the bubbles with a pin works ok ,fitting a new seal is preferable.
 
terryplumb said:
Bubbling of those seals is quite common ,done loads of them. Bursting the bubbles with a pin works ok ,fitting a new seal is preferable.
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense.... sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. I spent well over 30 minutes just trying to get the flush valve out of its cradle. If I had a new seal to hand I would definitely have used it - but obviously it's not something I would have - and I had only a bit of hope within me that it might even be the solution I was looking for.

I still don't know for sure, but your comment gives me some hope - I'm going to check back on it in 5 minutes. If it's started hissing then I need to think again - but I now reckon the fix will be along the same lines - seal.
 
I've been to check and it looks like an explosion happened - there's bits of porcelain everywhere, water all over the floor and more coming out of what's left of an inlet...

Obviously I'm joking - it's absolutely fine - no hissing at all. I will keep a suspicious eye on it but I think it's fixed (even if temporarily) and, hopefully, this thread will help anyone else with a problem like this understand the steps I took... and stop them immediately rushing out to buy a fill valve.
 
dpm_dpmartin said:
I didn't criticise you (plural)... I've only criticised you (singular). Let's face it - you did offer poor advice (and with certainty) on this one, even as a professional. In fact you actually wasted my time by sending me down a wrong path. It doesn't take much to imagine you right here, making the same mistake(s).

Let's just hope that my "make do and mend" fix works for longer than 1 hour. ;) I may easily sill have egg on my face, but, so far... total parts replaced = 0, total cost to me = some swearing and 1 can of Thatchers Blood Orange Cider (but I only pay myself later in the evening). I will be checking it in just over half-an-hour.
Click to expand...
Another member told you to replace the flush valve too. Although, no, you only critisised me. It does seem that you've taken a dislike so really it probably didn't matter what I said.

Your posts have been filled with sarcasm, and that's also not helping.

Based on what you said in your first post I advised what I thought it might be. As I have said more than once, if you are hoping that working on your description and photo you will get the correct diagnosis immediately, it may be disappointing - plumbing is a hands on thing. I have given you an opinion on what may be wrong. Clearly you were looking for a fix up rather than a replacement. Being in the room is going to produce the right diagnosis because you are able to try several different things before replacing to ascertain the issue. This is a DIY forum where we can only see what you are showing us on a photo and description.

Please stop trying to batter me with accusations of what you imagine I did or didn't do. It's becoming tedious and is un-necessary. I note you still haven't confirmed what it is that you do for a living.

Andy
 
I don't feel that I've imagined anything. The first thing you stated was - a new fill valve is needed. The second thing you stated was also fit a new flush valve (basically swap everything inside the tank). No explanation or rationale of any kind delivered with either instruction / suggestion - call it what you will. Now you seem upset that some effort and good fortune means I appear to have fixed it without unnecessarily buying new parts - that's just an odd view to take, why wouldn't that always be the aim?

Don't begrudge the small wins. Applaud them.

Anyway, I know by answering the thread, your heart is in the right place, but you just didn't couch what you think are suggestions in that way at all.

And you now come over as being agitated that you were called-out for providing bad 'suggestions'. The facts are simply the facts. It can't ever be my fault that you went and offered 'suggestions' that came across as instructions, without explanation (more than that, you'd refused to explain them at all, despite me really wanting that little bit more detail - "I forgot that all the pros on here are here to teach all the diyers plumbing" - and they demonstrably turned out to be emphatically wrong. There's no subjective opinion here - that's what really happened and it's all here to see.

That makes me chuckle and I'm so glad I'm the kind of person that hardly ever takes things at face value. What you have demonstrated with your input here is simply... well, it's arrogance, isn't it, pure and simple. Pure arrogance through and through. Like, somehow, I don't have the right to ask follow-on questions of your advice, even when you've gone and engaged with my question and even when it doesn't feel correct (and, turns out, isn't correct). Arrogant people hate being called-out. You hate it.

I was going to take on the suggestion of replacing the flush valve, but first I had to take it out, right - and it was only luck that I had a play around with it and thought about those bubbles in a little more detail. I don't know if it's a permanent fix, but at the moment it's lasting. I accept that you did not have the latest information, as I went about all of this tinkering, otherwise you might well have suggested I do the same thing. I have my doubts.

Let's move on, if we cross paths in the future I'll know to be skeptical of whatever you say, and you can just ignore me - we'll both win out and be happy. Now, to be unambiguous, I have bigger problems than the dead-end you almost led me down - it didn't happen, so it's OK - the YouTube algorithm now seems to think I'm some kind of toilet flush and spare parts aficionado. It needs correcting now.

I've always said - anything a Plumber can do a monkey can do - and I'm proven right once more, as just demonstrated by me!
 
dpm_dpmartin said:
I've always said - anything a Plumber can do a monkey can do - and I'm proven right once more, as just demonstrated by me!
Click to expand...

You've just offended every plumber on here.

Still haven't told me what profession you are.

I'm the least arrogant person you will meet. I'm not agitated in any way, glad for you that your problem seems to have been solved for now with no cost, well done. I wouldn't be able to come to your property, jiggle the flush valve, tell you it's fixed, charge you a price and walk away. You would be calling me to come back eventually when it happens again. There are some things that just need to be replaced, it will probably only be a temporary fix that you have achieved. As a professional plumber I don't like to leave someone with a temporary fix, I like to know the job has been done. You are correct, I did not have all of the information from you. Maybe I would have come to the same conclusion regarding the seal, but you didn't mention this for some time.

I'll wait to see your war and peace answer - with your profession obviously!

Andy
 
dpm_dpmartin said:
I don't feel that I've imagined anything. The first thing you stated was - a new fill valve is needed. The second thing you stated was also fit a new flush valve (basically swap everything inside the tank). No explanation or rationale of any kind delivered with either instruction / suggestion - call it what you will. Now you seem upset that some effort and good fortune means I appear to have fixed it without unnecessarily buying new parts - that's just an odd view to take, why wouldn't that always be the aim?

Don't begrudge the small wins. Applaud them.

Anyway, I know by answering the thread, your heart is in the right place, but you just didn't couch what you think are suggestions in that way at all.

And you now come over as being agitated that you were called-out for providing bad 'suggestions'. The facts are simply the facts. It can't ever be my fault that you went and offered 'suggestions' that came across as instructions, without explanation (more than that, you'd refused to explain them at all, despite me really wanting that little bit more detail - "I forgot that all the pros on here are here to teach all the diyers plumbing" - and they demonstrably turned out to be emphatically wrong. There's no subjective opinion here - that's what really happened and it's all here to see.

That makes me chuckle and I'm so glad I'm the kind of person that hardly ever takes things at face value. What you have demonstrated with your input here is simply... well, it's arrogance, isn't it, pure and simple. Pure arrogance through and through. Like, somehow, I don't have the right to ask follow-on questions of your advice, even when you've gone and engaged with my question and even when it doesn't feel correct (and, turns out, isn't correct). Arrogant people hate being called-out. You hate it.

I was going to take on the suggestion of replacing the flush valve, but first I had to take it out, right - and it was only luck that I had a play around with it and thought about those bubbles in a little more detail. I don't know if it's a permanent fix, but at the moment it's lasting. I accept that you did not have the latest information, as I went about all of this tinkering, otherwise you might well have suggested I do the same thing. I have my doubts.

Let's move on, if we cross paths in the future I'll know to be skeptical of whatever you say, and you can just ignore me - we'll both win out and be happy. Now, to be unambiguous, I have bigger problems than the dead-end you almost led me down - it didn't happen, so it's OK - the YouTube algorithm now seems to think I'm some kind of toilet flush and spare parts aficionado. It needs correcting now.

I've always said - anything a Plumber can do a monkey can do - and I'm proven right once more, as just demonstrated by me!
Click to expand...
As a fellow diy'er, I'm frankly disgusted by the rudeness in the posts you've made here.
I don't know why you think you're entitled to free and perfect advice on this forum.
I find it frankly offensive that you think it's ok to be so rude and insulting to people genuinely offering help out of simple generosity, if you don't get perfect advice first time.
I do sometimes offer suggestions from my own experience to fellow diy'ers on this forum. Sometimes people find it helpful.
You can rest assured that given the content of the posts you've written here, you'll likely not need to worry about receiving any suggestions from me, (or from others who'll likely just block seeing posts from your account)
Cheers, Stephen
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top